D&D General Ray Winninger on 5e’s success, product cadence, the OGL, and more.

[mearls]

And to throw another thing into the discussion: I am incredibly bullish on TTRPGs. Magic and Warhammer continue to hit record highs after the pandemic. I think they are fundamentally following a very different strategy compared to D&D, and the D&D strategy is a deeply flawed one.

 

[DEFCON 1]

It is interesting how the OSR community treats the many, many different but similar games as easily compatible . . . while the 5E community seems to be having a harder time with 2014 vs 2024.

Partly, I'm sure, is that the BX core of many OSR games is simpler than D&D 5E, but I don't think it's just that. Maybe OSR fans are just grognards tired of the never-ending Edition Wars in fandom . . .

Honestly? I think it's because the OSR community already knows that they are a minor splinter group of the overall TTRPG community, so they just feel like that if they have this one thing in common, they should just stick together and work around any issues.

Whereas as we all know... WotC D&D is the giant pool in the TTRPG and a whole lot of people have tied their identities to being "D&D players" and have to remain a part of it. But at the same time, they also would prefer to use game rules they actually like. So the only way to have both those things work out for them is for them to hope/demand that WotC write the D&D rules to match what they think D&D should be. That way they can get both-- be a vibrant member of the D&D community and also play a D&D game they are happy with.

If WotC doesn't write their rules that way? Then the person feels like they have no choice but to not to play, and then they complain that they've been "left behind".

 

[DEFCON 1]

I'm not sure how much they care, but I feel they should. If the community, rightly or wrongly, perceives 2014 and 2024 as different enough from each other, it can fracture the fan base and impact sales of official D&D books moving forward.

How many of the "modern" fanbase will decide, "I stopped purchasing WotC D&D books when they released the new edition in 2024."? I'm not sure the impact is going to be huge, but also I don't think it will be insignificant.

It might just be that I perhaps just don't see the break as being as possibly as wide as you? Frankly, I just don't think most of the playerbase cares... especially considering most of the playerbase doesn't even use 3rd party stuff where they'd need to worry about "compatibility" or the name of the version or any of that jazz.

To me.. I suspect most of the playerbase going forward over the next few years are gonna just load up DDB and/or Maps and/or Project Sigil and just play your basic, baseline D&D that those programs present to them. And not be concerned with anything else.

Of course, that's just my opinion... I could be wrong.

 

[dave2008]

Magic and Warhammer continue to hit record highs after the pandemic. I think they are fundamentally following a very different strategy compared to D&D, and the D&D strategy is a deeply flawed one.

As I am not really familiar with MtG or Warhammer (other than knowing what they are), what are their fundamental strategies?

 

[Scribe]

As I am not really familiar with MtG or Warhammer (other than knowing what they are), what are their fundamental strategies?

Warhammer: Raise costs to continue to hit a 70% profit, while being extremely competent in management of the costs of their business. Lean hard on nostalgia over the last several years with call backs to prior editions biggest hitters.

Magic: Reprint their back catalog to hell and back, driving down resell value for the players, while pushing massive power in new sets to drive increased purchasing, while also leaning into their own direct sale Secret Lairs model, all at the cost of the games overall health. /bitter.

 

[eyeheartawk]

I am now confident that we'll never come to an agreed upon name. I'm going with D&D 2024.

How about we split the difference and call it Steve?

How about we grab a Costco size bag of pizza rolls and play Steve all weekend, like the old days, guys?

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

To echo what @darjr posted earlier - if it was a clear triumph or disaster we'd know by now. What we're seeing is something like a status quo. In my experience and based on that status quo, that's not a good investment.

Given that 5E rolled out with a Starter Set, while the 2024 edition won't have its version out until about a year after the PHB debuted, do you think that plays into it at all? Is that on-ramp important for driving sales at this point in the edition/update?

 

[dave2008]

Warhammer: Raise costs to continue to hit a 70% profit, while being extremely competent in management of the costs of their business. Lean hard on nostalgia over the last several years with call backs to prior editions biggest hitters.

Magic: Reprint their back catalog to hell and back, driving down resell value for the players, while pushing massive power in new sets to drive increased purchasing, while also leaning into their own direct sale Secret Lairs model, all at the cost of the games overall health. /bitter.

Yikes, if that is what @mearls is talking about I am glad D&D is not following those strategies! However, I am guessing he was thinking of something different.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I think it's because the OSR community already knows that they are a minor splinter group of the overall TTRPG community

Not based on Kickstarter revenue, they're not.

 

[Scribe]

Yikes, if that is what @mearls is talking about I am glad D&D is not following those strategies! However, I am guessing he was thinking of something different.

Warhammer's a great success story from a business running perspective. There are places to find some great deep dives, but they absolutely take advantage of the "plastic crack" of their customers (aka users) addiction.

Magic on the other hand, I believe they are mismanaging deeply.