D&D General Ray Winninger on 5e’s success, product cadence, the OGL, and more.

[WinningerR]

So did the 4e PHB

My point was that it was physically impossible for WotC to print as many copies as they needed in the time to meet their schedule. That was certainly not the case with the 4E PHB. The print run for the 2024 PHB was much, much larger than that of the 4E PHB.

 

[darjr]

Kickstarter is one of the major ways that RPGs from publishers big and small fund their projects. Goodman Games, Kobold Press and Monte Cook Games would have very different outputs without crowdfunding. (Kobold Press might not even exist without it, as they were crowdfunding before there was even a term for it.)

And the OSR scene eats up a huge portion of the RPG Kickstarter pie.

If you personally don't engage with the OSR scene or Kickstarter, that doesn't make them irrelevant to gaming as a whole.

The OSR is also so fractured that it’s hard to get a handle on its size. I just stumbled into a large group playing osr games I’d never heard of.

 

[TiQuinn]

I am now confident that we'll never come to an agreed upon name. I'm going with D&D 2024.

And crazily enough, it seems no matter what terminology we use, at least the folks on this board understand the different names.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

The OSR is also so fractured that it’s hard to get a handle in its size. I just stumbled into a large group playing osr games I’d never heard of.

The democratization of the scene is (mostly) a blessing, but sometimes a curse. But it also means there's almost always great stuff out there you've never heard of, just waiting for you to stumble across it.

 

[darjr]

The democratization of the scene is (mostly) a blessing, but sometimes a curse. But it also means there's almost always great stuff out there you've never heard of, just waiting for you to stumble across it.

Absolutely! It’s part of the joy of it really.

 

[mearls]

My point was that it was physically impossible for WotC to print as many copies as they needed in the time to meet their schedule. That was certainly not the case with the 4E PHB. The print run for the 2024 PHB was much, much larger than that of the 4E PHB.

Was it?

Why were they printed in the US? That's far more expensive than printing elsewhere, with the savings in shipping nowhere near enough to offset more expensive printing in the states.

Plus, the price remained at $50 despite inflation. Roughly speaking, they are selling the book at a 24% discount when you account for inflation. The margins are already squeezed. Printing in the US is just squeezing them even further.

I wonder if the print run was very short, to get books to market on time. Does anyone have a second printing copy? Where was it printed?

 

[darjr]

Was it?

Why were they printed in the US? That's far more expensive than printing elsewhere, with the savings in shipping nowhere near enough to offset more expensive printing in the states.

Plus, the price remained at $50 despite inflation. Roughly speaking, they are selling the book at a 24% discount when you account for inflation. The margins are already squeezed. Printing in the US is just squeezing them even further.

I wonder if the print run was very short, to get books to market on time. Does anyone have a second printing copy? Where was it printed?

I don’t think they only printed in the US. I’ve heard of books in the UK from European printers, for example.

 

[darjr]

@mearls here is one report I just googled.

https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/d-d-beyond-general/general-discussion/206076-phb-2024-european-dispatch?comment=2

 

[mearls]

I don’t think they only printed in the US. I’ve heard of books in the UK from European printers, for example.

That's wild! And a huge blow to the bottom line. I wonder if the product was so far behind schedule that they had to scatter printing across the world to get stuff out on time.

That might be where the idea of multiple print runs come in.

 

[darjr]

That's wild! And a huge blow to the bottom line. I wonder if the product was so far behind schedule that they had to scatter printing across the world to get stuff out on time.

That might be where the idea of multiple print runs come in.

From what I understand they couldn’t get a large enough order. So they had to shop around anyway.