WotC Mike Mearls: "D&D Is Uncool Again"

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In Mike Mearls' recent interview with Ben Riggs, he talks about how he feels that Dungeons & Dragons has had its moment, and is now uncool again. Mearls was one of the lead designers of D&D 5E and became the franchise's Creative Director in 2018. He worked at WotC until he was laid off in 2023. He is now EP of roleplaying games at Chaosium, the publisher of Call of Chulhu.

My theory is that when you look back at the OGL, the real impact of it is that it made D&D uncool again. D&D was cool, right? You had Joe Manganiello and people like that openly talking about playing D&D. D&D was something that was interesting, creative, fun, and different. And I think what the OGL did was take that concept—that Wizards and this idea of creativity that is inherent in the D&D brand because it's a roleplaying game, and I think those two things were sundered. And I don’t know if you can ever put them back together.

I think, essentially, it’s like that phrase: The Mandate of Heaven. I think fundamentally what happened was that Wizards has lost the Mandate of Heaven—and I don’t see them even trying to get it back.

What I find fascinating is that it was Charlie Hall who wrote that article. This is the same Charlie Hall who wrote glowing reviews of the 5.5 rulebooks. And then, at the same time, he’s now writing, "This is your chance because D&D seems to be stumbling." How do you square that? How do I go out and say, "Here are the two new Star Wars movies. They’re the best, the most amazing, the greatest Star Wars movies ever made. By the way, Star Wars has never been weaker. Now is the time for other sci-fi properties", like, to me that doesn’t make any sense! To me, it’s a context thing again.

Maybe this is the best Player’s Handbook ever written—but the vibes, the audience, the people playing these games—they don’t seem excited about it. We’re not seeing a groundswell of support and excitement. Where are the third-party products? That’s what I'd ask. Because that's what you’d think, "oh, there’s a gap", I mean remember before the OGL even came up, back when 3.0 launched, White Wolf had a monster book. There were multiple adventures at Gen Con. The license wasn’t even official yet, and there were already adventures showing up in stores. We're not seeing that, what’s ostensibly the new standard going forward? If anything, we’re seeing the opposite—creators are running in the opposite direction. I mean, that’s where I’m going.

And hey—to plug my Patreon—patreon.com/mikemearls (one word). This time last year, when I was looking at my post-Wizards options, I thought, "Well, maybe I could start doing 5E-compatible stuff." And now what I’m finding is…I just don’t want to. Like—it just seems boring. It’s like trying to start a hair metal band in 1992. Like—No, no, no. Everyone’s mopey and we're wearing flannel. It's Seattle and rain. It’s Nirvana now, man. It’s not like Poison. And that’s the vibe I get right now, yeah, Poison was still releasing albums in the ’90s. They were still selling hundreds of thousands or a million copies. But they didn’t have any of the energy. It's moved on. But what’s interesting to me is that roleplaying game culture is still there. And that’s what I find fascinating about gaming in general—especially TTRPGs. I don’t think we’ve ever had a period where TTRPGs were flourishing, and had a lot of energy and excitement around them, and D&D wasn’t on the upswing. Because I do think that’s what’s happening now. We’re in very strange waters where I think D&D is now uncool.
 

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you can use the existing SRD, it’s not like there are drastic changes that make this impossible

But Mearls seems specifically to be asking "If 2024 D&D is so exciting, where are all the great 3rd party products supporting 2024 D&D like we had with 3.0?" There are loads of 3rd party 5E products coming out. Nobody can specifically create a 3rd party product that uses/celebrates the 2024 rules, so what does he want there?
 


Regardless of the minutia of the ups and downs, I think it's important to note that fluctuations like this are why it's good that D&D is part of Hasbro.
Hasbro is not saving WotC, WotC is saving Hasbro

There's a group of players that have been arguing that ever since D&D got popular, WotC should break from Hasbro. If what Mearls says is even remotely true, how bad of a position would D&D be in right now if they were solo? Layoffs, restructuring, or even looking for another buyer?
D&D is only a part of WotC, and the last round of layoffs were because of Hasbro.

The last few years, right now, and in the foreseeable future Hasbro is the anchor around WotC’s neck. The only question is whether WotC can keep Hasbro afloat, the anchor will not turn into a life raft anytime soon, no matter how D&D does
 

Aren't there third-party materials for 5.5 on the DM's Guild?

Sort of? But WotC owns and derives royalties from everything on DMsGuild so it's questionable whether those are "3rd party" in the way that Mearls means? Plus, I guess that's not exciting enough for him?

I'm not pretending I know what he's talking about, hence my confusion.
 



But Mearls seems specifically to be asking "If 2024 D&D is so exciting, where are all the great 3rd party products supporting 2024 D&D like we had with 3.0?" There are loads of 3rd party 5E products coming out. Nobody can specifically create a 3rd party product that uses/celebrates the 2024 rules, so what does he want there?
you can certainly have classes specific to 2024, and I am seeing some of those. Everything else is probably 2014 and 2024, so not sure what he is looking for specifically. I would assume it is more the number of releases in general, at least that would make sense to me, but not sure
 

I can't help but equate this to superhero comics and the DC/MCU movies. Superhero comics have always been there, and were there before mainstream media outlets started talking about how cool superheros are, but the big moment was the release of Iron Man, and the hint that they were going to release a series of movies that would all be connected as part of a bigger universe -- a bigger story. We got that with the Marvel Phases and the Avengers movies, and each movie was making hundreds of millions of dollars, and getting more buzz than the last one -- until one day, that buzz started to die down.

DC couldn't really get their interconnected universe off the ground. Marvel wrapped up the Infinity Saga, key actors retired from their roles, no one knew where the next story would go, and we started to hit a level of saturation that made the whole endeavor seem less cool even as they continued making money...but also noticeably less money than they were before. I think it's difficult to keep something like that sustainable, but in the case of WotC and D&D, I also feel like in some ways, they didn't reach the heights that they could've reached. There's more growth to potentially be had, I think, but I'm not convinced they're on a path to achieving that growth and that reach.
I'm not sure what point of connection you are trying to make. By all accounts, superhero movies did not particularly help comics sales. Mainstream cultural popularity certainly helped D&D sales.
 

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