D&D (2024) Sunless Citadel Thoughs? Almost had a tpk.

[sevenbastard]

I have TPKed in 5e. It was the 70 something ish adventure in that campaign. PC had a string of bad luck. Also I had two critical hits in a row from two Chasme Demons 22d6 is a brutal critical.....

 

[Gorg]

I'm currently running it. in 3/3.5 edition. My players found that room, the OP is talking about, took a look, shrugged, and left. Thus, those mephits were never encountered.

I've re-discovered a few things, so far:

Poison is very powerful, when combined with low level characters- esp if several poisonous monsters are encountered at once. Rolling Fortitude saves numerous times in one encounter... Half the party was effed up BAD by 3 giant spiders. The wandering Twig Blights downed the rogue, and nearly the barbarian- before we even got to the adventure...

Luckily, those rats on the ledge got squished before anyone had to save vs filth fever. Has anyone READ what that does??

Multiple attacks per round, by several monsters can also be disastrous. The second room they entered has 3 skeletons. They have no melee weapons, so use 2 claw attacks. Again, Barbarian downed, rogue on the ragged edge, and Sorceror seriously wounded. Cleric burned all of his spell slots healing everyone. We ended up going back to town. Recruited a 5th member (a fighter) and returning.

I also rediscovered the fact that Barbarians are glass cannons, lol. Esp with a 13 dex and studded leather armor. That poor guy can't catch a break!! It's like he's a magnet for damage. You really need a FIGHTER or Paladin, for combat heavy adventures.

OTOH, it was GLORIOUS when he raged during an encounter with goblins hiding behind a half wall. Dude ate 3 javelins- then got so mad, he leapt over the wall and absolutely annihilated the first goblin he saw. Gobbo had 1 hit point left- Borovik did 12 points of damage to it with his great axe, lol. Gobbo died badly... He was ably helped by the cleric, who whipped out a scroll of Spiritual weapon, and started pounding on them when missile fire failed. (3/4 cover grants a +7 to AC, bringing the gobs to 22.)

( I love that spell! Esp, if you imagine it being an enraged granny with a rolling pin, lol. Take THAT!! and THAT!!)

As for the too much treasure comment. ??? Our party hasn't found much of anything, especially $$$. A couple potions, some silver pieces, an everburning candle, that's about it.

I Prefer Lost Mine of Phandelver as an introductory adventure, but 3e is what everyone wanted to play, and this one is pretty fun, too.

 

[Shadowdweller00]

I've had a lot of tpks. Mostly homebrew stuff that I didn't properly vet against the players beforehand. Also mostly NOT 5e, but rather stuff like 3.5 or pathfinder. I did have one total party defeat once in 5e, but the enemies were trying to recover some stuff the party had taken, not kill them.

I do not recommend them.

 

[Shadowdweller00]

Anyway, as to the OP: I've tried to DM sunless citadel a couple times. And also played through it a couple times. There are at least a couple decent fights - the wyrmling, for example. But...I don't know - it feels like there's a lot of... boringness at the beginning. Not exactly empty space, but maybe too many boring or inconsequential fights? I never once felt seriously threatened.

I've never liked it very much.

 

[Blue]

I've never actually run it before. Anyway fairly early on lvl 1 they encountered a fire and ice mephit. Between their AoE breath weapons and explosion on death ability it dropped 2/4 and came clise on the remaining two.

Still they enjoyed it and it seems well regarded online. Meepo went down a treat.

2024 makes it easier.

5e puts a really big buffer between fear of death, and actual death. You reached fear of death -- dropping -- for half the party. Even at 1st level, a TPK isn't that close.

 

[pukunui]

I'm currently running it. in 3/3.5 edition.

As for the too much treasure comment. ??? Our party hasn't found much of anything, especially $$$. A couple potions, some silver pieces, an everburning candle, that's about it.

Firstly, you’re the DM, so I expect you’ve read the whole thing and know where all the treasure is regardless of how little of it your players have found so far.

Secondly, it’s not going to feel like too much treasure to you since you’re using the edition for which it was written. What I meant was: it’s too much treasure for 5e – and I was mainly thinking of the amount of coins and such.

Yawning Portal was WotC’s first attempt at converting old adventures to 5e, and they took a conservative “let’s stay as faithful to the original as possible” approach. In later anthologies, they didn’t stick to the original versions quite so closely. Some of them are more reimaginings than conversions.

 

[Peter BOSCO'S]

I've never actually run it before. Anyway fairly early on lvl 1 they encountered a fire and ice mephit. Between their AoE breath weapons and explosion on death ability it dropped 2/4 and came clise on the remaining two.

Still they enjoyed it and it seems well regarded online. Meepo went down a treat.

2024 makes it easier.

I have run this numerous times for beginners and I have found that having a pre-built L1 Kobald Sorcerer PC named Meepo is a great way to replace a dead PC and give the GM a chance to help the party with things like "Meepo, you know that there is an evil tree on the lower level." I am attaching a sheet (for personal use only), but this is a 2014 sheet and would need to be redone for a 2024 only campaign.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

I think this has more to do with the first two levels being far more deadly than the rest of the game in 5e. And why its common for more modern adventures to avoid lethal combat in that level range. In 3rd edition, which Sunless Citadel was written for, there wasn't such a sudden drop in lethality at level 3.

But I would say, "the party just narrowly avoids dying" is the sweet spot for combat encounters, and what I usually aim for.

 

[Gorg]

Firstly, you’re the DM, so I expect you’ve read the whole thing and know where all the treasure is regardless of how little of it your players have found so far.

Secondly, it’s not going to feel like too much treasure to you since you’re using the edition for which it was written. What I meant was: it’s too much treasure for 5e – and I was mainly thinking of the amount of coins and such.

Yawning Portal was WotC’s first attempt at converting old adventures to 5e, and they took a conservative “let’s stay as faithful to the original as possible” approach. In later anthologies, they didn’t stick to the original versions quite so closely. Some of them are more reimaginings than conversions.

3e printed adventures were notoriously stingy with treasure. I do, in fact, know where the goodies are- and there's not much of it. Especially coinage. Just a handful of silver here, and a few gp there. The rest is some low value gems and some "art objects" inc a silver flask full of Goblin sprits (blech!!) Or single use magic items- scrolls and potions, mainly. A couple of toys can be pried from the cold, dead hands of the boss monsters, but that's expected. The Gobbo chief encounter is 10 monsters- not counting the 9 gobbos and hobgobs in the common area you have to get through to get TO him. Not a Monty Haul by any means, and not an issue in a 5e game, either.

Aside from the intro modules, most of the 5e adventures I have are still in the to-read pile, lol. I did go through the "Giants" one and from what I read, you have to add the loot yourself- it requires a fair amount of prep. ( I'm a player in our upcoming 5e game, so no rush) I don't remember either way, if I thought they were stingy, just right, or DAYUM!! Just that you had to add the magic at least. But still- just how broke are adventurers supposed to be? If that's too much, I'd say that's an awful lot of work and risk- for very little. Equipment is costly- so are spellbooks and research.

 

[kittenhugs]

Even in the 3.5e times Sunless was a bit of a slog for 1st level characters, with too many giant rats and goblins to face head-on to not be killed or forced to retreat. Not to mention you can run into a white dragon wyrmling? young white dragon? whose breath weapon can easily kill full HP adventurera. 1st level resources are so small that any adventure at that point should be like 3 encounters with a short rest in between each-Starting at 3rd level will be a better bet.

That said, Sunless Citadel is still one of my favorite adventures. Very good mix of dungeon delving and small-scale adventure, and you can use Belak and the Gulthias Tree to kick off any number of adventures. I was even considering having the tree drag the adventurers into Ravenloft next time I run it.