D&D (2024) Hobgoblin warriors

[Remathilis]

So for six months we were complaining about how godlike the 2024 PHB PCs are and NOW we're worried about TPKing them?

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Their CR in 2014 was based on a DPR of 12. The DMG says you just add the damage bonus from Martial Advantage to the base DPR to give the total. It's assumed they always get it, basically.

Now, we can argue about whether that's too high for a CR 1/2 creature, but it's been this way since 2014, and no one's had any issues including hobgoblins in low-level encounters up to now.

No. It has not been this way.

Even if it both fits the bad monster building advice in the 2014 MM. The added ranged damage is especially is terrifying. And attcking with advantage for the same damage as 2014 WITHOUT advantage is definitely an upgrade.

Because in every case where the old hobgoblin got 2d6 damage, the new hobgoblin gets the equivalent of about +3 or +4 to hit.

So sorry. No they are not even closely the same, and in my opinon, their ranged attack is too dangerous.

And to add insult to injury: their poison is more poten than that of their higher level variants.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

So for six months we were complaining about how godlike the 2024 PHB PCs are and NOW we're worried about TPKing them?

I was not complaining and yes, at that level I am always worried about a TPK.

 

[Thommy H-H]

No. It has not been this way.

Even if it both fits the bad monster building advice in the 2014 MM. The added ranged damage is especially is terrifying. And attcking with advantage for the same damage as 2014 WITHOUT advantage is definitely an upgrade.

Because in every case where the old hobgoblin got 2d6 damage, the new hobgoblin gets the equivalent of about +3 or +4 to hit.

So sorry. No they are not even closely the same, and in my opinon, their ranged attack is too dangerous.

And to add insult to injury: their poison is more poten than that of their higher level variants.

Nah, it's fine.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Nah, it's fine.

We will see. But it definitely is an upgrade over 2014! A significant one. Everything else would be a lie.

 

[Bae'zel]

So for six months we were complaining about how godlike the 2024 PHB PCs are and NOW we're worried about TPKing them?

Yeah that was my first thought. The PCs seem stronger than before, healing spells are better, and now the monsters are stronger too.

 

[ezo]

I find it laughable that the default hobgoblin warrior has half-plate which goes for 750 gp a suit... Boy, my players would be stoked about this! Cha-ching! $$$

What was wrong with them having chain mail? They have the STR 13 requirement, if you worry about it, and only costs 1/10th the cost of half-plate.

I mean, medium armor AC 15 +1 dex is 16, 18 with shield for half-plate.
But heavy armor AC 16 without dex, 18 with shield for chain mail is the same.

Why such a stupid change???

And they can poison on their arrows? Why not poison listed as part of their gear?

Yeah that was my first thought. The PCs seem stronger than before, healing spells are better, and now the monsters are stronger too.

Yep, creep creep creep in all directions, yet completely compatible with 2014, right?

Yeah, I am still not seeing a single change for the better really. Changing Martial Advantage to Pack Tactics is fine, but then remove the buff damage (2d10 longsword, really? while using a shield...???).

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Longsword attack +3/2d10+1 damage (yes, two handed damage and an extra d10 on top!)

Wow. Sad to see they're still completely misclassified as CR 1/2 then.

The extra damage is also exactly what they gained from Martial Advantage before, so the only meaningful change is the addition of Pack Tactics.

It was dumb then, but they had the excuse that the edition had just come out and they didn't want to do any errata for anything but the most extreme and urgent flaws.

They should have fixed this or upped their CR. It's a cruel joke for them to be CR1/2 when they will one-shot almost all L1 characters and even some L2 ones, and on a high roll can even one-shot L3 ones.

no one's had any issues including hobgoblins in low-level encounters up to now

They absolutely have lol. They've been a notably badly-CR'd mob since then. You have to treat them like they're much more dangerous. This MM was a great opportunity to correct the error, rather than double-downing on it!

It's a real pity, because CR in 5E was bad, but not a total disaster, accuracy-wise, like 3.XE's was (where it actively hindered your understanding), and it's so trivial for them to just change it, so why even essentially lie to DMs by doing stuff like this? All you end up doing is give some newer DMs and players a really bad and confusing experience!

 

[ezo]

They should have fixed this or upped their CR. It's a cruel joke for them to be CR1/2 when they will one-shot almost all L1 characters and even some L2 ones, and on a high roll can even one-shot L3 ones.

Orcs in 2014 could do this as well at CR 1/2, so I don't know what to tell you.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I find it laughable that the default hobgoblin warrior has half-plate which goes for 750 gp a suit... Boy, my players would be stoked about this! Cha-ching! $$$

What was wrong with them having chain mail? They have the STR 13 requirement, if you worry about it, and only costs 1/10th the cost of half-plate.

I mean, medium armor AC 15 +1 dex is 16, 18 with shield for half-plate.
But heavy armor AC 16 without dex, 18 with shield for chain mail is the same.

Why such a stupid change???

And they can poison on their arrows? Why not poison listed as part of their gear?


Yep, creep creep creep in all directions, yet completely compatible with 2014, right?

Yeah, I am still not seeing a single change for the better really. Changing Martial Advantage to Pack Tactics is fine, but then remove the buff damage (2d10 longsword, really? while using a shield...???).

Yeah... baffling. I did not see that. No, the hobgoblin stat block as is is not really usable.

Drop the shield. Drop AC by 2. Use chain mail. Use sane damage. It is still CR 1/2.

They are even depicted with chain mail, not half plate. I seriously expect them to get a little erratum (which should be singular form of errata).