D&D (2024) Wrapping up first 2-20 2024 campaign this week, some of my thoughts

[Zardnaar]

I took a guess. It is a Longsword wielded in 2 hands - 2 attacks, plus Truestrike. So it is like 3d10 sword + 6d6 vicious + 3d6 truestrike + 15. Probably.



Fighter has Greeat Weapon Master, and is attuned to both a Hammer of Thunderbolts and a Belt of Giant Strength, giving him an extemely high strength, I am guessing its around 28.

He also usually rolls with advantage due to topple, which enemies usually fail and crits on an 18.

If you add in his crit range with advantage, a +6 for GWM strength it is over 30 per hit. On average he usually doing about 200 damage if he action surges. This I do know. The last fight had a lot going on and it is possible some of those guys took damage from AOEs. The other 3 fights I am pretty confident about.



It is action economy.

In the first fight THL made it so 3 enemies, all who got a turn, had a total of 1 action ... and it would have been 0 actions if the third enemy was visible when I cast the spell.

In the boss fight, the boss got 2 turns. The other 3 non-minions got around 10 turns between them in 4 rounds but they only got to take 3 actions out of those turns. So lets say Tasha's hideeous laghter took away 6 turns from the enemy, and whatever the Bard cast took away one.

This is in addition to making them prone so the Fighter (and the rest of us) attacked with advantage.

THL is also much better at high level when your DC is near impossible for someone without proficency and even more so when they are rolling with disadvantage.

Given the performance of THL in this adventure, I would argue upcast at 5th level is substantially better than Hold Monster.



They take the Dash action every turn, so they can not take other actions. This is how it was in 3E as well. It is not like turn undead where they can take another action if they can't move any further.

Sorry if I was not clear on that.

THL is?

 

[ECMO3]

For everyone saying "that's too many magic items", consider the 2024 magic items by level guidelines. By 18th level, the party can be expected – according to those guidelines from 2024 DMG – to have accumulated (not created) the following between them all during the campaign...

• 19 Common items
• 29 Uncommon items
• 23 Rare items
• 19 Very Rare items
• 11 Legendary items

If split evenly between 4 PCs, Edit: 5 PCs (sorry, misread OP) it works out to something like this per PC...

• 3-4 Common items
• 5-6 Uncommon items
• 4-5 Rare items
• 4 Very Rare items
• 2 Legendary items

@ECMO3 's you said your PC had the following:

• unknown rarity (1): Foresight Shortsword
• Uncommon Items (1): Cloak of Protection
• Rare items (2): Rod of the Pactkeeper +2, Vicious Dagger
• Very Rare items (2): Efreeti Bottle, Shield +3
• Legendary Items (1): Rod of Lordly Might
• ?? Potions & Scrolls

So you'd need something like Edit: 11-13 potions & scrolls to be hitting those 2024 DMG guidelines for "the number of magic items a D&D party typically gains during a campaign."

Based on what I know, that seems like you were maybe about par for the course with 2024 guidelines?

The foresight Shortsword should probably be Rare. I do have 2 rings of resistance as well, but I would say it is not crazy many magic items.

I have some potions and scrolls but not more than 10.

 

[ECMO3]

THL is?

Tasha's hideous Laughter. Sorry.

This spell is WAY amped up from its 2014 version. It affects everything now, no intelligence limit and can affect multiple creatures.

 

[GrimCo]

Well, high level D&D has always been wonky and unbalanced. From personal experience, either PCs mop the floor, or they get moped. It's art to make encounter at that levels without making it initiative rocket tag or long grinding slog fest.

And to be fair, most adventures, particularly high level ones, suck if you run them out of box. They can't take into account party composition, level of optimization and synergy, magic items etc. I think that every adventure should have intro chapter for inexperienced dm-s that tells them how encounters are built around no magic average single class party and that some tweaking with encounters is necessary depending on above mentioned parameters. Warning- some assembly required so to speak.

One thing to note. While 5e adventures might be compatible, feats were optional back in 2014, but are now standard rule again.

 

[ECMO3]

I've never seen taking an action to not be heard in real life or online so I'm not sure where that's coming from. Depending on environment and whether the DM believes there is a chance to hide a rogue can hide every round as a bonus action.

In 5E you take the action to be hidden. You get advantage on that if you are invisible and creatures rely on sight, but absent the action to hide you are not "hidden" in 5E even if you are invisible. You are just unseen. The rules for this changed quite a bit in 2024.

I played Arcane Tricksters a lot in 5E and I rarely cashed out on Magical Ambush because I was not "hidden" and wanted to use my bonus action for something else. Now it is a lot easier to be "invisible" and I rarely cast a save spell when not invisible.

 

[Oofta]

In 5E you take the action to be hidden. You get advantage on that if you are invisible and creatures rely on sight, but absent the action to hide you are not "hidden" in 5E if you are invisible. You are just unseen. The rules for this changed quite a bit in 2024.

I played Arcane Tricksters a lot in 5E and I rarely cashed out on Magical Ambush because I was not "hidden" and wanted to use my bonus action for something else. Now it is a lot easier to be "invisible".

Not sure how it is easier to be invisible than hidden than invisible but I guess it's going to depend on the game. I've just never seen nor heard of only being unheard requiring an action.

 

[GrimCo]

On the side note, 22 sessions for lv 2-20 is damn fast. That's almost level per session. Even for 4 h sessions, you guys must be laser focused and run trough game at wicked pace.

 

[ECMO3]

I just edited to correct my post. True Strike takes an action and grants a single attack, not an attack action.

True Strike Casting time 1 action​

Guided by a flash of magical insight, you make one attack with the weapon used in the spell’s casting. The attack uses your spellcasting ability for the attack and damage rolls instead of using Strength or Dexterity. If the attack deals damage, it can be Radiant damage or the weapon’s normal damage type (your choice).​

​

A valor bard gets a bonus action attack due to casting a spell that requires an action, but that bonus attack doesn't include the damage from True Strike. The bonus action attack averages 20 point of damage on a hit, so even if they hit twice it only averages out to 47 points of damage.

A Valor Bard has a special version of extra attack. He can cast a Cantrip that has a casting time of one action in place of one of his attacks when he takes the attack action. This gives him an attack and casting of Truestrike as an action. Then he gets to make another attack using Battle Magic as a Bonus Action.

So you are looking at 3d10+9d6+15 or 20 (unsure if he Agonizing Truestrike).

 

[tetrasodium]

Well, high level D&D has always been wonky and unbalanced. From personal experience, either PCs mop the floor, or they get moped. It's art to make encounter at that levels without making it initiative rocket tag or long grinding slog fest.

And to be fair, most adventures, particularly high level ones, suck if you run them out of box. They can't take into account party composition, level of optimization and synergy, magic items etc. I think that every adventure should have intro chapter for inexperienced dm-s that tells them how encounters are built around no magic average single class party and that some tweaking with encounters is necessary depending on above mentioned parameters. Warning- some assembly required so to speak.

One thing to note. While 5e adventures might be compatible, feats were optional back in 2014, but are now standard rule again.

That bold bit is the problem, it's even less present in 2024 than 2014. In both it pretty much gets tossed out the window of plausibility quite a bit before "high level" & the only real difference is how far it gets tossed outside that window

 

[ECMO3]

Not sure how it is easier to be invisible than hidden than invisible but I guess it's going to depend on the game. I've just never seen nor heard of only being unheard requiring an action.

In this post I am capitalizing the condition "Invisible" and using the lower case invisible when talking about the common meaning in English. I hate the new "Invisible" rules but they are what they are.

invisibility in 2024 is quite complicated and defies the common English meaning; you can actually be "Invisible" without being invisible. If you successfully hide behind a curtain or a table you are "Invisible" in 2024. By the same token if you are invisible according to English in 2024 you might not have the "Invisible" condition to a particular observer if they have blindsight or something else ... so you are invisible but not "Invisible".

In play this boils down to pretty much any time you would have been "hidden" in the old game, you will be "Invisible" in the new one and in addition any time you would be unseen but not hidden in the old game you will also be "Invisible" in the new game.

In my character in specific I can turn invisible as an action through One With Shadows if in dim light or darkness and I do between almost every combat. Additionally I can turn invisible after casting misty step. If the enemy has no way of seeing invisible creatures either of these make me "Invisible" and lets me use Magical Ambush. I can also use cunning action to hide somewhere and become "Invisible", as a halfling this includes hiding behind allies.

If we were using the 5E definition of "Invisible" and the 2024 character rules it would not be easier, because it was harder to be "5E Invisible" than it was to be 5E "Hidden".

EDIT: Looking back at the old rules, what I was looking for was "Heavily Obscured" being invisible in 2014 5E makes you Heavily Obscured but does not make you Hidden, you need the stealth check to be Hidden and trigger magical ambush using the 2014 Arcane Trickster.