General star wars talk/discussion/complaining

[Bedrockgames]

I’m talking about the people who hated on Finn and Rose (and on the non-white cast of The Acolyte). They can take their racism and sexism elsewhere.

That’s not being dismissive.

To @Micah Sweet's point, I liked Finn and Rose (I thought Kelly Marie Tran was great in that role and I think Boyega got royally screwed out of a character that had solid potential). I thought that was one of the better things in that movie. But a lot of people didn't like the Last Jedi for a wide variety of reasons. And plenty of people didn't like those characters or their love story, for a variety of reasons. But I think plenty of people complained about them that weren't racist. I've defended those characters enough in conversations against people who didn't like them to understand a lot of it has nothing to do with race (and sure there are racists out there, and Disney chickened out on the global market and didn't do the obvious love story they should have gotten because they knew it wouldn't play well in some places, which is a real same because I think there is still a lot of hostility towards interracial couples in the world). I'm in an interracial marriage myself and have certainly encountered it enough to know it still exists). I think there were a few different criticisms going on around them though. Some people simply didn't like the character of rose (which I disagree with but that is fair), some thought they simply didn't have chemistry, some thought they were trying to check off too may boxes (which I don't think is a racist criticism but I can see how someone would read it as such: still I think the core criticism is more about it feeling artificial) and some people were genuinely reacting to it because they were racist or disliked having an interracial couple for some reason. I thought Rose was a very charming character and I thought she worked well paired up with Finn. What really pissed me off about his character arc was they just kind of relegated him to the side by the third film (and Rose got completely jettisoned which I thought was unfortunate) as it would have been perfectly feasible having her with Finn during the movie and that would have worked better.

I think part of the issue is we've started using things like Star Wars, and for some reason things like Rose and Finn in particular, to read into peoples beliefs and politics. And companies exploit this to drive conversation

 

[chuckdee]

And that’s fine. I wouldn’t necessarily call those people toxic.

But a lot of people don't have shades of grey in their reasoning in this regard- when someone says they didn't like it, some don't listen for the reason, just start giving them the side eye.

 

[overgeeked]

I will always defend the early Star Wars novels. I think they're infinitely better than just about anything we've got since. Kevin J. Anderson, Timothy Zahn, Michael A. Stackpole, etc. Those stories kicked the sequels' asses. Hell, they kicked the prequels' asses. Rogue One, Mandalorian, and Andor are the only recent Star Wars I have really enjoyed.

 

[Deset Gled]

I will always defend the early Star Wars novels. I think they're infinitely better than just about anything we've got since. Kevin J. Anderson, Timothy Zahn, Michael A. Stackpole, etc. Those stories kicked the sequels' asses. Hell, they kicked the prequels' asses. Rogue One, Mandalorian, and Andor are the only recent Star Wars I have really enjoyed.

One of these things is not like the others,

One of these things just doesn't belong.

 

[Zardnaar]

I will always defend the early Star Wars novels. I think they're infinitely better than just about anything we've got since. Kevin J. Anderson, Timothy Zahn, Michael A. Stackpole, etc. Those stories kicked the sequels' asses. Hell, they kicked the prequels' asses. Rogue One, Mandalorian, and Andor are the only recent Star Wars I have really enjoyed.

KJA not so much. Coherent at least kinda fun.

Aaron Alston X Wing books, anything by Zahn, AC Crispens solo trilogy. And the Darth Bane Plageus books are widely well regarded.

Crystal Star and Children of the Jedi opposite problem lol.

 

[Zardnaar]

Section 31 is an abomination. That sort of morally grey cynicism has no place in Star Trek either!


Do we want / need those fans back? A lot of them are toxic. They can stay away for all I care.

I don't mind that in Trek or anywhere. Has to be good.

Section 31 seems to have unified the fan base. I'm scared to watch it terrible reviews from everyone.

 

[Dioltach]

I will say there is one scene in all of Star Wars canon that I found absolutely horrifying. In the Andor series, when they learn that once their sentence is completed they're not going to be released. No matter the sentence, they've been imprisoned for life. And the reason it's so horrifying is because it seems real in a way that a planet busting super station or a prune shooting lighting out of his hands does not. It's not comic book evil it's just evil.

I think the entire Empire in Andor was scary because they were all just people doing their jobs, following procedure, defending their little bit of turf in their office politics. But all those little bits add up to a colossal galactic tyranny.

 

[GreyLord]

The folks whom they truly lost with the sequel trilogy -- as in, they're not buying new Star Wars stuff, not subscribing to Disney+, not going on Star Wars rides at Disneyland -- is exceptionally small. They're just really noisy. (And a lot of those noisy people are fibbing about boycotting all Star Wars stuff.)

We will differ on opinions on this.

2 Billion on the first film...to half of that by the third...yeah...I'm going to strongly disagree with you on this one.

The reputation of SW in general is trash these days. The more they stick with their current plan, the more they lose.

If it was 1/2 by the third film, I'd say they are down to 25% of the audience they once had, and it's still getting lower.

The numbers of watchers watching the new series are not just because the series are badly made (in fact, some of them are well made and probably well thought out. Everything I've heard about Skeleton Crew shows that it's actually one of the better TV series made recently), but because they are losing the audiences and fans that badly.

There comes a point where you have to suck it up and say...we made a mistake and change course.

WotC did it after Essentials essentially...bombed (well, depending on how you see it). They were smart enough to see that a course that is sinking is one to abandon ship, and you need a new ship that sails a lot better with a different outlook if you are going to rise again...and it didn't take them over a decade to figure that one out.

Disney with all it's cash should have figured this out far before this, but apparently they are so hard headed they can't even figure their way out of their own office building politics.

 

[GreyLord]

To @Micah Sweet's point, I liked Finn and Rose (I thought Kelly Marie Tran was great in that role and I think Boyega got royally screwed out of a character that had solid potential). I thought that was one of the better things in that movie. But a lot of people didn't like the Last Jedi for a wide variety of reasons. And plenty of people didn't like those characters or their love story, for a variety of reasons. But I think plenty of people complained about them that weren't racist. I've defended those characters enough in conversations against people who didn't like them to understand a lot of it has nothing to do with race (and sure there are racists out there, and Disney chickened out on the global market and didn't do the obvious love story they should have gotten because they knew it wouldn't play well in some places, which is a real same because I think there is still a lot of hostility towards interracial couples in the world). I'm in an interracial marriage myself and have certainly encountered it enough to know it still exists). I think there were a few different criticisms going on around them though. Some people simply didn't like the character of rose (which I disagree with but that is fair), some thought they simply didn't have chemistry, some thought they were trying to check off too may boxes (which I don't think is a racist criticism but I can see how someone would read it as such: still I think the core criticism is more about it feeling artificial) and some people were genuinely reacting to it because they were racist or disliked having an interracial couple for some reason. I thought Rose was a very charming character and I thought she worked well paired up with Finn. What really pissed me off about his character arc was they just kind of relegated him to the side by the third film (and Rose got completely jettisoned which I thought was unfortunate) as it would have been perfectly feasible having her with Finn during the movie and that would have worked better.

I think part of the issue is we've started using things like Star Wars, and for some reason things like Rose and Finn in particular, to read into peoples beliefs and politics. And companies exploit this to drive conversation

I'm a POC.

I think Rian Johnson is a Racist...things I can't continue to say here.

He did Finn EXTREMELY dirty in TLJ.

They could have redeemed it in RoSW, and hinted at it, but didn't have the guts.

That said, I don't think that's the main reason a lot of people didn't like TLJ, but it's probably one of the small and minor contributions.

 

[Deset Gled]

The numbers of watchers watching the new series are not just because the series are badly made (in fact, some of them are well made and probably well thought out. Everything I've heard about Skeleton Crew shows that it's actually one of the better TV series made recently), but because they are losing the audiences and fans that badly.
...
Disney with all it's cash should have figured this out far before this, but apparently they are so hard headed they can't even figure their way out of their own office building politics.

The other big thing to remember, of course, is that number of watchers isn't the key stat Disney cares about. And toys are only a part of the merchandising. Net income is now about park visits, video games, clothing, food, web forums, toothbrushes, etc.

We're criticizing architecture on individual buildings to a company that's building cities. It's not that Disney doesn't care - they do try, and celebrate the wins - it's that we take failure personally while they're already moving on to the next thing.