D&D 5E 2024 D&D is 2014 D&D with 4E sprinkled on top

[Micah Sweet]

What does this mean? It was obvious at launch. So obvious that people started doing it pretty much straight away.

So surviving crucifixion in a desert is "mundane", but holding one's breath for hours is not?

I'm not seeing what the standard is here.

Do people hold their breath for hours in action movies?

 

[GobHag]

Do people hold their breath for hours in action movies?

H ow about arule that says that a martial literally cannot die during the the first encounter of the day? And that they can never run out of ammo?

 

[Hussar]

I wonder how popular a DnD caster with a spell list as long as a Battlemaster’s maneuver list would be. Say, what, three spells per spell level?

Heh it would still be MILES more powerful and versatile as a Battlemaster.

 

[Remathilis]

You do realise that Conan can crush the skulls of were-hyenas with his fists, can survive being crucified in the desert, etc. So by your standards is a magical character.

I mean, if Conan the Barbarian is a D&D barbarian, he's absolutely a "magical" character. Rage is essentially supernatural. Most subclasses have overt supernatural abilities. He's not a spellcaster, but he's exactly a mundane either.

 

[CreamCloud0]

Past a certain level, the tropes of leveling require a character to leave the mundane behind.

A “high-level mundane” is an oxymoron.

when i discuss 'high level mundane martials' it's more about being mundane in the nature of the actions they take rather than the scale of them, no matter if a fighter manages to strike a foe eight times in six seconds with their sword they're still fundamentally only just hitting them with a weapon, a 30ft jump is still fundamentally just jumping, ect, ect...

 

[Micah Sweet]

when i discuss 'high level mundane martials' it's more about being mundane in the nature of the actions they take rather than the scale of them, no matter if a fighter manages to strike a foe eight times in six seconds with their sword they're still fundamentally only just hitting them with a weapon, a 30ft jump is still fundamentally just jumping, ect, ect...

Ok, but those are all superpowers, like, literally. That makes them supernatural in my book.

 

[Hussar]

I mean, if Conan the Barbarian is a D&D barbarian, he's absolutely a "magical" character. Rage is essentially supernatural. Most subclasses have overt supernatural abilities. He's not a spellcaster, but he's exactly a mundane either.

Considering that rage lets you actually FLY, I'd say it's very, very supernatural. That's the hillarious thing. The notion that a fighter could swing his weapon so hard that he flies is absolutely impossible. But, my guy getting so angry he can literally fly in to a rage (heh) is no problem whatsoever.

But, I mentioned this earlier about what if you had a caster with a list of 20 spells total for their spells, same as a Battlemaster has only 20 maneuvers. Let's split that up over 9 levels:

1st (4 spells) - Expeditious Retreat, Jump, Shield, Thunderwave
2nd (4 spells) - Alter Self, Invisibility, Knock, Scorching Ray
3rd (3 spells) - Fear, Fly, Fireball
4th (3 spells) - Charm Monster, Stoneskin, Ice Storm
5th (2 spells) - Cloudkill, Telekinesis
6th-9th, 1 spell/level. - Circle of Death, Plane Shift, Earthquake, Meteor Storm

((Note, taken from the 2024 Sorcerer spell list))

Now, there's the benchmarks. That's what a fighter should be able to do, without magic, although a supernatural or whatever you want to call it source is fine. No actual spells. Just using his weapon/spirit/whatever, the fighter or rogue can duplicate THOSE effects. So, instead of needing to be 14th level to fly, our fighter can do it at 5th. Our fighter can slam the ground so hard to cause earthquakes at 15th. So on and so forth.

If we're going to get class parity, this is what needs to happen. Or, we need to drastically reduce what a caster can do. Either way.

 

[Remathilis]

Do people hold their breath for hours in action movies?

I mean, I hold my breath for an hour during a good horror movie...

 

[Remathilis]

Considering that rage lets you actually FLY, I'd say it's very, very supernatural. That's the hillarious thing. The notion that a fighter could swing his weapon so hard that he flies is absolutely impossible. But, my guy getting so angry he can literally fly in to a rage (heh) is no problem whatsoever

I've always maintained that the barbarian rage was supernatural. Hell, 4e made it explicitly Primal powered. And that is good enough for me to justify all the crazy BS they can do.

 

[Zardnaar]

I've always maintained that the barbarian rage was supernatural. Hell, 4e made it explicitly Primal powered. And that is good enough for me to justify all the crazy BS they can do.

For me it depends on the barbarian. Most are supernatural though.