D&D General Why grognards still matter

[FrozenNorth]

Well, sure. However, I think Knices Out and Glass Onion demonstrate that Rian Johnson was not himself personally the issue at hand as a creative force.

I actually liked both those movies. But TLJ is still terrible.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Also, I’m pretty sure it’s the Boomers who think they own Star Wars.

Nah it's very solidly GenX, c.f. Clerks etc.

You seem to be conflating “The Force Awakens” with the “Last Jedi”. It was in TFA that it was established that Han and Leia divorced, that Luke turned his back on the galaxy and became a hermit, and that Han and Leia’s son turned evil and killed Han.

No, I'm not. That's the point. None of that destroyed their headcanon fantasies, it just put them in peril. But TLJ absolutely destroyed them.

If the movie immediately preceding sets out certain themes or plot points, undermining or ignoring what has been set out undermines your movie as well.

No? I mean, it's an opinion, but I don't agree with it, and without a detailed argument in its favour, I think it's a bit random. Also, he didn't "undermine" them in some cheap way - he transformed them into something different. You don't have to agree with that, but there's a big difference between significant intentional change and just forgetting something or the like.

Never heard anyone complaining about that scene

Then you are not at all familiar with TLJ criticism lol. That's like saying "I've never heard anyone criticise TNG episode 2 for being racist" or something.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

But it fails on the second branch of what constitutes a demographic: does the group described have anything in common apart from their age?

I mean, they do - groaning and moaning about earlier editions - hence the term grognard.

Saying grogs are a marketing segment and should be listened to is meaningless when the grogs as defined aren’t saying one thing.

Yeah I think that is a major issue though. Grogs are actually several smaller marketing segments.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Loki. What If. Agents of Shield.

Not many, but they exist.

Loki is the one I'd actually count there - that is the one actual proper MCU show that has had more than one season.

 

[dave2008]

Then you are not at all familiar with TLJ criticism lol.

I am not familiar with the criticism, any chance you can enlighten me?

To be clear, I like Star Wars, but I am not a fan the consumes everything star wars related (not really what you would call a fanatic for the IP). I don't really care much about episodes 7-9. I have only watched them once (I think that sufficiently captures my opinion of them).

 

[Bedrockgames]

You seem to be conflating “The Force Awakens” with the “Last Jedi”. It was in TFA that it was established that Han and Leia divorced, that Luke turned his back on the galaxy and became a hermit, and that Han and Leia’s son turned evil and killed Han.

Also, I’m pretty sure it’s the Boomers who think they own Star Wars.

I think of Star Wars as more of a Generation X thing (but I tend to think of boomers more as the 60s generation). My memory is when TFA came out, I didn't mind all these changes. I mean I think having them divorced does undercut the ending of Jedi a bit. But I also understand, they need conflict and changes to keep the movies going. I also thought it was kind of indulgent to kill Han off like that (it didn't bother me, didn't ruin the movie, but it felt a bit like a cheap plot beat). However I really liked TFA. I thought it was about as well done as we were going to get after the prequels (which really didn't land that well for me). Really what threw the wrench in the films for me as a fan was TLJ. As a film on its own, it was fine. If they had given him that money to make a standalone science fiction I think it would have worked better. But the problem with TLJ is 1) turns Luke into an entirely different character (this isn't a head cannon issue, even the actor who played him said it felt like a completely different version of luke, because Luke was the one who embodied the optimism of the first trilogy---and if you look at interviews of Hamil from that time and later, you see what an optimistic guy who was, which I assume had something to do with the casting decision), 2) the dialogue hits you over the head with its message in a way that distracts from the story (lines like the one about killing the past if you have to), and 3) it isn't a well written second installment in a trilogy. It doesn't give the next movie anywhere real to go, and it doesn't leave you excited to see the next movie (contrast that with the end of Empire, where you can't wait to find out what happens in the next film). They shouldn't have pitted two directors against each other over the course of a trilogy. That isn't about them ruining head cannon. That is just not a good way to make a three part movie

 

[dave2008]

Loki is the one I'd actually count there - that is the one actual proper MCU show that has had more than one season.

There was also Jessica Jones, Daredevil, and Punisher that each had 2 or more seasons. Interestingly, Daredevil is coming back even.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

There was also Jessica Jones, Daredevil, and Punisher that each had 2 or more seasons. Interestingly, Daredevil is coming back even.

Those are Netflix Marvel shows, not MCU shows though - they were only technically, in the very loosest sense in the same universe until Disney did some retcon'ing after acquiring them.

 

[KYRON45]

Are all grognards equal?
D&D and RPGs in general. Star wars. StarTrek. Marvel.
Come on now....that's a lot of nards.

 

[dave2008]

Those are Netflix Marvel shows, not MCU shows though - they were only technically, in the very loosest sense in the same universe until Disney did some retcon'ing after acquiring them.

Yes and no. Like I said, Disney is bringing back Daredevil with the same timeline and characters from the Netflix show. So they are not completely separate from the MCU.

Though to be honest, it seems Disney is getting more flexible with what is the MCU. The new fantastic 4 movie definitely doesn't fit into the current MCU timeline / understanding