D&D General Why grognards still matter

[UngainlyTitan]

Definitely above par for Star Wars movies, sorry. And I say that as someone who watched the original trilogy a couple times a week as a child and read all the books in the 90s.

Now you are setting the bar low

 

[FrozenNorth]

The Pareto Principle in business states, 10 percent of your customers provide 90 percent of your profit. the other 90 percent of your customers spend lots of money but in small amounts. Smart companies always cater to the 10 percent first then the 90 percent.

I don’t think the Pareto principle applies here. As someone else pointed out, WorC doesn’t produce enough different types of books for 10% of customers to provide 90% of profit.

 

[Maxperson]

Citation needed for WotC completely disregarding grognards, particularly given detailed sections in the new DMG concerning Greyhawk.

The 5.5e DMG was written for new DMs. I don't think Greyhawk was for the grognards, but instead I think they are putting out the original setting for the 50th anniversary.

 

[Maxperson]

Has any MCU show had multiple seasons?

Loki. What If. Agents of Shield.

Not many, but they exist.

 

[Parmandur]

Now you are setting the bar low

Well, sure. However, I think Knices Out and Glass Onion demonstrate that Rian Johnson was not himself personally the issue at hand as a creative force.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

Well, sure. However, I think Knices Out and Glass Onion demonstrate that Rian Johnson was not himself personally the issue at hand as a creative force.

Oh! i never claimed he was, there are a lot cooks in a movie and may things can contribute to a poor movie. That is why neither star nor directors are a guarantee of a good movie.

 

[Maxperson]

Oh! i never claimed he was, there are a lot cooks in a movie

 

[cranberry]

Grognards still matter because we've got more money and more time. Further, we stick with the hobby, whereas a lot of the newer players come and go pretty quickly.

Losing us may seem insignificant from a raw percentage perspective, but our disappearance we would have a disproportionate impact on the TTRPG industry.

 

[FrozenNorth]

I think the original post is fundamentally flawed. Basically, it takes an expansive definition of the term grognard (“Did you start playing 3.0 or earlier? Then you might be a grognard! Call our hotline to find out!”).

But it fails on the second branch of what constitutes a demographic: does the group described have anything in common apart from their age?

So, grogs who wish that 5.0 were more rules-lite like OSR are lumped in with 3.5 fans who feel there aren’t enough rules. Players who since moved on to more narrative options and expanded player agency are conflated with Players who consider the DM the sole arbiter of world-building. Should orcs be a PC-race race? Some grogs say yes, others say no. And of course, there are quite a few grogs (some even in this thread) who are broadly happy with the direction of 5th ed. and 5.5e.

Saying grogs are a marketing segment and should be listened to is meaningless when the grogs as defined aren’t saying one thing.

 

[FrozenNorth]

Trying to pretend that scene wasn't and in fact isn't still moaned about continuously and loudly by TLJ-haters is just shenanigans.

Never heard anyone complaining about that scene and I don’t even understand what was tge problem with it now.

It's a crap pretense and nothing more. And "complaints about inconsistencies" are frankly most backfill, with people looking for reasons to excuse the fact that they are mad because where TFA didn't ruin their old-EU-based headcanon, indeed it kind of teased it (though was already undermining it by making Luke a weird hermit), TLJ absolutely steamrollered that headcanon.

Nope. Never cared or read about EU canon, and TLJ was still a bad movie (so was the Force Awakens for different reasons).

If the principle conceit of your movie is that the Resistance ship is being chased by the Empire, you just can’t have multiple characters leave and return to the ship. It undermines the conceit of your movie.

If the movie immediately preceding sets out certain themes or plot points, undermining or ignoring what has been set out undermines your movie as well.

That's what we saw - a lot of Gen-X people who think that they "own" Star Wars (which we'd seen come up before with the prequel trilogy and their overwrought reactions to that) who absolutely had significant headcanon about Luke/Han/Leia, and definitely thought that they basically lived "happily ever after", getting extremely upset because Luke, particularly, was shown to have basically flopped, rather than become this skinny, black-wearing badass he'd been in the old EU.

You seem to be conflating “The Force Awakens” with the “Last Jedi”. It was in TFA that it was established that Han and Leia divorced, that Luke turned his back on the galaxy and became a hermit, and that Han and Leia’s son turned evil and killed Han.

Also, I’m pretty sure it’s the Boomers who think they own Star Wars.