D&D General Why ya gotta be so Basic? Understanding the Resurgence of Moldvay's Basic

[Snarf Zagyg]

But them getting a definition in the glossary, just like "saving throw", presupposes that ability checks are a standard and accepted mechanic. This is the real distinction between how they're treated in 2E as opposed to Moldvay. In 1981 they were an idea, probably one with some currency, but not universally known. By 1989 they were extremely common and part of the expected toolset for an AD&D player.

This is pretty hairsplitty, but I do see an evolution of their usage and expansion of their ubiquity.

Maybe this is worth a longer historical writeup, but while Moldvay put this down in writing, it's hinted at in OD&D (the LBBs) but never explained, and was somewhat common in the 1970s.

You can trace the "roll under" as far back as pre-D&D Blackmoor, when it was used for abilities, skill rolls, and even attacks.

In short, Moldvay helpfully included something that was assumed in play by a lot of OD&D players, but simply wasn't written as a rule. Because ... reasons? Writing is hard?

 

[Xeviat]

So which game has the best exploration rules I can pilfer for my upcoming Hexcrawl game? I've been liking what I'm hearing about exploration turns and really want to read more and dive in.

 

[Mannahnin]

Maybe this is worth a longer historical writeup, but while Moldvay put this down in writing, it's hinted at in OD&D (the LBBs) but never explained, and was somewhat common in the 1970s.

You can trace the "roll under" as far back as pre-D&D Blackmoor, when it was used for abilities, skill rolls, and even attacks.

In short, Moldvay helpfully included something that was assumed in play by a lot of OD&D players, but simply wasn't written as a rule. Because ... reasons? Writing is hard?

That is my understanding as well, although you seemed to disagree with me about it last year. You were pretty emphatic that ability checks were "certainly not widespread".

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

That is my understanding as well, although you seemed to disagree with me about it last year. You were pretty emphatic that ability checks were "certainly not widespread".

A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines. With consistency Snarf has simply nothing to do. Snarf may as well concern himself with his shadow on the wall. Snarf will write what Snarf thinks now in hard words, and tomorrow will write what tomorrow writes in hard words again, though it contradict every thing Snarf wrote today.

 

[PHATsakk43]

From my research on this ability check codification, it’s seems like the first time it was really fully explored was in the Johnathan Tweet chapter in 2E DMGR5 Creative Campaigning splat.

It’s a somewhat interesting concept in that it seemed to be effectively killed off with the D20 system and its successors like 5E as there are no “roll under” mechanisms whatsoever that I can think of post 2E.

There is a blogpost that somewhat describes the development of the concept over time, but I feel it lacks some of the details we’ve mentioned in this post.

 

[Mannahnin]

It’s a somewhat interesting concept in that it seemed to be effectively killed off with the D20 system and its successors like 5E as there are no “roll under” mechanisms whatsoever that I can think of post 2E.

Pendragon is a prominent example of a system which, though predating 2E, has roll under as its central mechanic and has remained in print to this day (just got a new edition).

In the OSR movement it's also extremely common, with The Black Hack being one of the more popular examples.

 

[Parmandur]

Pendragon is a prominent example of a system which, though predating 2E, has roll under as its central mechanic and has remained in print to this day (just got a new edition).

In the OSR movement it's also extremely common, with The Black Hack being one of the more popular examples.

And notably, the whole Chaosium BRP lineup began as OD&D house rules (Rolemaster, too, which is also roll under).

 

[Mannahnin]

There is a blogpost that somewhat describes the development of the concept over time, but I feel it lacks some of the details we’ve mentioned in this post.

Yeah, there are some good details in there (pointing out that in 1978 RuneQuest had "multiply your ability score by 5 and use that as a percentage"; which is literally just d20 roll-under with percentile dice substituted), but some of it's off. He mistakenly asserts, for example, that Weapon Proficiencies originated in Unearthed Arcana rather than the 1978 PH.

 

[PHATsakk43]

Pendragon is a prominent example of a system which, though predating 2E, has roll under as its central mechanic and has remained in print to this day (just got a new edition).

In the OSR movement it's also extremely common, with The Black Hack being one of the more popular examples.

I had a longer and more passionate talk about roll under on another reply on the topic of 2E in general.

Needless to say, I’m not a fan of single mechanic games and do like me some roll under mechanics.

 

[Aldarc]

B/X and 4e D&D are probably my favorite iterations of D&D. Despite their differences, I think that both had clear visions and (relatively) tight design for their gameplay as roleplaying games.