D&D (2024) D&D Marilith Is Far More Bestial In 2025

The new 2025 Monster Manual has all-new art, and one major change is the depiction of the marilith. Up until now, the marilith has been depicted as a six-armed humanish female from the waist up; while in the 2025 book, the picture is far more bestial in nature.

Not only is the imagery more demonic, it also features the creature in action, simultaneously beheading, stabbing, and entwining its foes with its six arms and snake-like tail.

Left 2025 Marilith / Right 2014 Marilith​

 

[Maxperson]

I don’t wholly agree. Demons particularly greater demons are very intelligent and wise. Strategy and tactics are not out of the picture though I can easily see a demon abandoning one plan for another, and it’s unlikely they would be able to want to properly organize the forces they command into more than screeching hordes.
Mariliths have excellent mental stats and are stated to lead droves of weaker demons into battle. Given that they are explicitly demons of cruelty and viciousness they no doubt lead from the frontlines. But they still would use strategy telling parts of the horde to flank and such.

It's not about intelligence. It's about alignment and that all demons, from the lowest to the demon lords, embody both chaos and evil. A tactical genius is about law and order to be able to focus that way and issue orders at the right time to the right units. They would also have to rely on lower demons to be lawful as well, or those demons wouldn't follow those orders well enough to be useful.

 

[Maxperson]

It absolutely is about the lack of breasts. The only reason people aren’t saying “that’s not a Marilith” about the 3e art but are about the 5e24 art is because the new art doesn’t have prominent breasts. No one has been able to explain in any way what makes the new art so different and against the standard without bringing up the fact that it lacks the breasts the older art had.

The lack of breasts makes it look not female, but it's not about boobz like people want to make our side out to be after.

 

[Incenjucar]

Is the classic marilith really an interesting design? Snake women have been around for centuries, I don’t think adding two pairs of arms is that innovative or interesting. I’m not suggesting the new design is better, but let’s be honest the marilith is not an innovative monster design.

They're some of the more popular monsters in D&D for the last fifty years, so plenty of people find the design interesting. I cannot speak to your personal tastes. Are unicorns just a horse or antelope with a horn jammed on? Dragons have been done to death. Wizards come in more flavors than ice cream. Half of monsters are just variant chimeras. A hydra is just a lizard with extra lizard.

I've typed this out a few times now, but: They're a juxtaposition of regal human and sinister beast with heavily emphasized personal power. They combine savage power with vast intellect, a brutal whirlwind of melee and tactically-focused magic. They are master strategists and tacticians dealing with an army that despises both, and their six-armed form reflects the many directions in which they work at once.

As I have also said many times, I do think that there's a lot to gain from expanding on this to make variant forms with the same basic template, but the core concept gives you a lot to work with and has built-in conflicts.

 

[Maxperson]

Are you under the impression that chaos is just brutishness? Are you against the idea of contrast?

Are you working under the "chaotic evil are the stupid minions and lawful evil are the smart bosses" version of alignment?

It's not just brutishness, but it's also not law and order like a master tactician would have in spades. If they described the the marilith as intuitive geniuses on the battlefield, that would fit much better. Then their brilliance would be more chaotic, while still make them effective battlefield leaders.

 

[Incenjucar]

Ok, I’ve seen scribe doing that, but that is not technically gaslighting is it?

Asserting that your version of reality about other people's beliefs and actions is gaslighting.

Second google result: How To Recognize The Signs Of Gaslighting

Graphic shows "You don't really mean that" as an example.

It's also just so unhelpful! We can just have different preferences, we don't have to accuse each other of secret motives behind our preferences.

 

[Hussar]

That's how time works. Final Fantasy 7 and Harry Potter came out in 1997 and people are still gaga for them. If things are only relevant to you for six months, well no there probably haven't been 20 marilith stories since last fall.

There probably haven’t been 20 Marilith stories ever.

 

[Hussar]

They're some of the more popular monsters in D&D for the last fifty years, so plenty of people find the design interesting. I cannot speak to your personal tastes. Are unicorns just a horse or antelope with a horn jammed on? Dragons have been done to death. Wizards come in more flavors than ice cream. Half of monsters are just variant chimeras. A hydra is just a lizard with extra lizard.

I've typed this out a few times now, but: They're a juxtaposition of regal human and sinister beast with heavily emphasized personal power. They combine savage power with vast intellect, a brutal whirlwind of melee and tactically-focused magic. They are master strategists and tacticians dealing with an army that despises both, and their six-armed form reflects the many directions in which they work at once.

As I have also said many times, I do think that there's a lot to gain from expanding on this to make variant forms with the same basic template, but the core concept gives you a lot to work with and has built-in conflicts.

Again, you claim this is a really popular monster yet the only example you give is from a book from over thirty years ago that virtually no one has ever read.

That’s not really what popular means.

 

[Incenjucar]

It's not just brutishness, but it's also not law and order like a master tactician would have in spades. If they described the the marilith as intuitive geniuses on the battlefield, that would fit much better. Then their brilliance would be more chaotic, while still make them effective battlefield leaders.

The impression that I've gotten is that mariliths are constantly ticked off because they have brilliant ideas and it's a constant struggle to get any of their minions or their superiors to listen. Like they would be constantly flipping tables every time they lose fifty vrocks because they wanted to land instead of strafe. Pathfinder does just give them a battle aura though.

 

[Charlaquin]

It's about taking a monster with an interesting design that has endured and inspired several official stories since 1E and replacing it with a muddy and generic design that doesn't do anything new and interesting relative to what it replaced.

Again, specifics, please. You don’t like that the design changed, I got that part. What exactly changed that you dislike? You say it’s not the breasts, I’ll take your word for that. So what is it? The color and number of arms haven’t changed. So, what are we left with? That she’s muscular? That the torso is scaly instead of fleshy? What?

 

[Charlaquin]

That’s the point t though. Demons should be brutish and undignified. That’s why they are demons. Every other “Typed” demon is brutish and undignified. Why should mariliths be different?

Why should demons be brutish and undignified?

I’m sorry, but what about this design marks it as brutish and undignified?