D&D (2024) D&D Marilith Is Far More Bestial In 2025

The new 2025 Monster Manual has all-new art, and one major change is the depiction of the marilith. Up until now, the marilith has been depicted as a six-armed humanish female from the waist up; while in the 2025 book, the picture is far more bestial in nature.

Not only is the imagery more demonic, it also features the creature in action, simultaneously beheading, stabbing, and entwining its foes with its six arms and snake-like tail.

mariliths.png

Left 2025 Marilith / Right 2014 Marilith
 

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Apart from the scales, color, and number of arms, nothing about this design couldn’t be found on a human female.
Or elf, dwarf, halfling, orc, lilend, gnome, tiefling, and dozens, if not hundreds of other creatures. Whatever or whoever created the D&D multiverse liked that design.
The number of arms has been a part of the design from the get-go, and these complaints didn’t manifest with the 3e art, which was scaled. What this is about is boobs, and fat. Beauty standards.
Nah. Not beauty. As @dave2008 showed earlier, mariliths have ranged from attractive to ugly over the decades. I didn't have an issue with any of the other depictions.
 

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Then what do we make of lizard folk, tortles, half-dragons, etc. that give no hint of male or female? Couldn't be that the marilith was moved to be more monstrous and less male or female like other creatures are (and how demons should be IMO).

To be clear, my preference is to remove sex from demons as they shouldn't have a sex IMO. However, I am fine with having demons that look like they have a sex, I prefer the older marilith designs myself (the HotA one is probably my favorite non-fan art); however, in my mind that design is not female - part of it just looks like an elf female.
I go the opposite way. These are creatures of the afterlife. The afterlife of mortals, many of whom go on to become part of these creatures and/or develop into them. Sex in my opinion should be a part of their design.
 

Don't even slightly agree here. Tactics are not lawful or chaotic, organization is Lawful. Demons respect of the simple hierarchy of obeying those stronger than them. The Marilith who commands lesser Demons would and should have them use simple tactics, even if they don't organize their subordinates
Tactics, when done correctly(by say a tactical genius) are crisp and orderly, and timed with precision. They require planning and forethought. All things of the lawful alignment. What they are not is scattered, random and unpredictable, which is what chaotic is.

A demonic tactical genius is one that takes time to actually yell charge before running forward.
 

Ok, that's a reading fail on your part.

I specifically said picture. I could not care less what they say in the text since this is a thread about art.
This thread left being only about art in the first few pages. It has been about female, which has included the lore for the vast majority of the thread.
 

I go the opposite way. These are creatures of the afterlife. The afterlife of mortals, many of whom go on to become part of these creatures and/or develop into them. Sex in my opinion should be a part of their design.
From Pathfinder 1st edtion:

Petitioners are the souls of mortals brought to the Outer Planes after death in order to experience their ultimate punishment, reward, or fate. A petitioner retains fragments of its memories from life, and its appearance depends not only upon the shape it held in life but also upon the nature of the Outer Plane to which it has come.

Abaddon (Neutral Evil): The “hunted” have bodies that are identical to what they had in life—these petitioners are doomed to be stalked and eventually consumed by the daemons that lust for souls. A hunted that survives long enough eventually warps and twists into a daemon. The hunted gain DR 5/— and fast healing 1 so that they provide a slightly more robust hunt for their daemonic predators.

Abyss (Chaotic Evil): “Larvae” are perhaps the most hideous of petitioners—they appear as pallid, maggot-like Creatures with heads similar to those they possessed in life. Larvae that feed long enough on Abyssal filth eventually transform into demons. They have cold, electricity, and fire resistance 10, and instead of a slam attack gain a bite attack as appropriate for their size.

Elysium (Chaotic Good): The “chosen” have idealized versions of their mortal bodies. In time, after experiencing the pleasures Elysium has to offer, the chosen become azatas. The chosen gain resistance to cold and fire 10 and a +2 bonus to Charisma.

Heaven (Lawful Good): The “elect” appear similar to their mortal forms, save that they possess a golden halo and feathered wings. After spending enough time aiding heavenly tasks, the elect become archons. They gain a fly speed equal to their base speed (average mobility).

Hell (Lawful Evil): The “damned” retain their mortal forms, but are heavily scarred by various tortures. Those who endure the torments of Hell long enough may eventually be approved for transformation into devils. The damned gain immunity to fire (but not immunity to the pain caused by fire—whenever one of the damned takes fire damage, it must make a DC 15 Fortitude save to resist being stunned by the pain for 1d4 rounds).

Limbo (Chaotic Neutral): The “shapeless“ retain their basic forms, but these forms constantly waver and shimmer, as if they were ghosts in peril of dissolving away. After wallowing in the chaos of Limbo for long enough, they can transform into proteans. The shapeless have the incorporeal subtype, an incorporeal touch attack, and all advantages granted by that defensive ability.

Nirvana (Neutral Good): The “cleansed” take on the forms of animals that closely approximate their personalities. Upon achieving true enlightenment, they transform into agathions. The cleansed gain cold and sonic resistance 10 and a +2 bonus to Wisdom.

Purgatory (Neutral): The “dead” appear as animated skeletons but are not Undead—in time, they can earn the right to become aeons. They gain DR 10/bludgeoning and immunity to cold.

Utopia (Lawful Neutral): The “remade” retain the same body shape but have milky white skin covered in dense black script, as if some strange scribe had used them for parchment. Upon deciphering the riddles posed by these complex lines of script, one of the remade can enter an axiomite forge to be transformed into an inevitable. The remade are immune to hostile transmutation effects and gain a +2 bonus to Intelligence.

So, once upon a time that Marilith use to be a mortal. ;)
 

I go the opposite way. These are creatures of the afterlife. The afterlife of mortals, many of whom go on to become part of these creatures and/or develop into them. Sex in my opinion should be a part of their design.

Not everything in mortal life is about sex. Thus, not everything in the afterlife should be about sex.

Plus, you know, selling to minors.
 

Not everything in mortal life is about sex. Thus, not everything in the afterlife should be about sex.

Plus, you know, selling to minors.
I've been using sex as opposed to gender, since there are more than two genders and this is about male/female. I'm not referring to the act of sex. I hope I haven't been confusing folks too much.
 

Okay. And? This isn't a frequency of depiction contest. WotC has owned the game for a long time.
Sure, but you were the one that said marilith's were more often "Regal and Elegant." That didn't mesh with my memory so I did a quick review and confirmed that, IMO, that was not an accurate description.
 

I've been using sex as opposed to gender, since there are more than two genders and this is about male/female. I'm not referring to the act of sex. I hope I haven't been confusing folks too much.

A fair clarification.
I think my statement holds, though.
 

I go the opposite way. These are creatures of the afterlife. The afterlife of mortals, many of whom go on to become part of these creatures and/or develop into them. Sex in my opinion should be a part of their design.
Are demons creatures of the afterlife? I don't thank that is 100% consistent with there lore. Definitely not 4e which the only thing that comes to mind at the moment. If that is your personal thought, that is fine of course. My opinion on demons and sex is my own as well. Much like deities, I don't see fiends as needing mortal souls to exist and feel it lessens outer planar creatures if they are dependent on mortals from the Prime. But that is just my viewpoint
 

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