D&D General If we were re-designing the Tiny Hut-esc 'instant shelter' spells what would we change?

[aco175]

I think that a few utility spells come in handy, more for gameplay and less for combat related means.

Cantrip- Umbrella (ella, ella). Creates a 5ft dome of force that shields you from rain, sleet and snow. Maybe expand it to give +2 AC from arrows and such. Otherwise just make it part of prestidigitation.

1s level- Leo's tiny tent. Creates a 10x10ft lean-to from local ground materials, but usually stone and wood. This area is waterproof and contains a small fireplace. The caster can determine the number of crude beds for up to 4 people. Lasts for 8 hours.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Cantrip- Umbrella (ella, ella). Creates a 5ft dome of force that shields you from rain, sleet and snow. Maybe expand it to give +2 AC from arrows and such. Otherwise just make it part of prestidigitation.

I've allowed this effect as part of prestidigitation, but there's definitely an argument for making it its own thing. But it is a classic wizardly thing to do.

 

[Oofta]

Rope Trick:
I've never actually seen this cast in any game I've played in 5E, I'm sure I've must have seen it sometime in an older edition but can't remember when. If it was used, it would just be the equivalent of finding a good hiding spot for an hour. I don't see that as a big issue.

Tiny Hut:
I rule that no attacks can originate from inside the hut, and of course enemies can still find the hut.

Galder's Tower:
Didn't even know this existed. Kind of an odd spell and I think the issue would have more to do with using it in "creative" ways like blocking an opening than anything.

Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion:
Another spell I don't remember seeing except on Critical Role. Generally speaking people just have other things to spend their spell slots on. I guess I don't really have an issue with this since generally speaking

With all of the spells, other than the tower if the enemy knows you're there and they're higher than animal intelligence I would rule that in many cases they know that spells like these exist in my campaign world. If they can track your location, they may well know where to set up an ambush.

For rope trick and Magnificent Mansion you could be mean and say that it falls under the rule for bag of holding; since it's an extradimensional space if anyone has a bag of holding or similar things go boom.

 

[Lanefan]

For rope trick and Magnificent Mansion you could be mean and say that it falls under the rule for bag of holding; since it's an extradimensional space if anyone has a bag of holding or similar things go boom.

Ayup.

Anyone ever had a group try to planeshift out of a Rope Trick's little pocket universe? I have; I ruled that yes the Rope Trick was technically a different plane than the Prime Material and thus yes, you could planeshift from there to somewhere on your own world. What they couldn't do - which they wanted to but I ruled "no" - was planeshift back in later before the spell ran out.

 

[TiQuinn]

Leomund's Tiny Hut is just one of those spells, you know the ones, the ones that are really just a little TOO convenient to not take y'know? there are a couple of other in a similar vein to it that are designed to provide some level of 'instant shelter' to the players: rope trick, galder's tower and mordenkainen's magnificent mansion, but i was wondering, as a bit of a creative design exercise, what if we had to take those spells out and had to replace them with new slightly more balanced ones? what are the biggest problems with the existing spells? how would those new spells be designed? how would you do it?

For reference:

Spoiler: rope trick

2nd-level transmutation
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Touch
Components: V, S, M (powdered corn extract and a twisted loop of parchment)
Duration: 1 hour
You touch a length of rope that is up to 60 feet long. One end of the rope then rises into the air until the whole rope hangs perpendicular to the ground. At the upper end of the rope, an invisible entrance opens to an extradimensional space that lasts until the spell ends.
The extradimensional space can be reached by climbing to the top of the rope. The space can hold as many as eight Medium or smaller creatures. The rope can be pulled into the space, making the rope disappear from view outside the space.
Attacks and spells can’t cross through the entrance into or out of the extradimensional space, but those inside can see out of it as if through a 3-foot-by-5-foot window centered on the rope.
Anything inside the extradimensional space drops out when the spell ends.

Spoiler: tiny hut

3rd-level evocation (ritual)
Casting Time: 1 minute
Range: Self (10-foot-radius hemisphere)
Components: V, S, M (a small crystal bead)
Duration: 8 hours
A 10-foot-radius immobile dome of force springs into existence around and above you and remains stationary for the duration. The spell ends if you leave its area.
Nine creatures of Medium size or smaller can fit inside the dome with you. The spell fails if its area includes a larger creature or more than nine creatures. Creatures and objects within the dome when you cast this spell can move through it freely. All other creatures and objects are barred from passing through it. Spells and other magical effects can't extend through the dome or be cast through it. The atmosphere inside the space is comfortable and dry, regardless of the weather outside.
Until the spell ends, you can command the interior to become dimly lit or dark. The dome is opaque from the outside, of any color you choose, but it is transparent from the inside.

Spoiler: galder's tower

3rd-level conjuration
Casting Time: 10 minutes
Range: 30 feet
Components: V, S, M (a fragment of stone, wood, or other building material)
Duration: 24 hours
You conjure a two-story tower made of stone, wood, or similar suitably sturdy materials. The tower can be round or square in shape. Each level of the tower is 10 feet tall and has an area of up to 100 square feet. Access between levels consists of a simple ladder and hatch. Each level takes one of the following forms, chosen by you when you cast the spell:

• A bedroom with a bed, chairs, chest, and magical fireplace
• A study with desks, books, bookshelves, parchments, ink, and ink pens
• A dining space with a table, chairs, magical fireplace, containers, and cooking utensils
• A lounge with couches, armchairs, side tables and footstools
• A washroom with toilets, washtubs, a magical brazier, and sauna benches
• An observatory with a telescope and maps of the night sky
• An unfurnished, empty room

The interior of the tower is warm and dry, regardless of conditions outside. Any equipment or furnishings conjured with the tower dissipate into smoke if removed from it. At the end of the spell’s duration, all creatures and objects within the tower that were not created by the spell appear safely outside on the ground, and all traces of the tower and its furnishings disappear.
You can cast this spell again while it is active to maintain the tower’s existence for another 24 hours. You can create a permanent tower by casting this spell in the same location and with the same configuration every day for one year.
At Higher Levels. When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 4th level or higher, the tower can have one additional story for each slot level beyond 3rd.

Spoiler: mordenkainen's magnificent mansion

7th-level conjuration
Casting Time: 1 minute
Range: 300 feet
Components: V, S, M (a miniature portal carved from ivory, a small piece of polished marble, and a tiny silver spoon, each item worth at least 5 gp)
Duration: 24 hours
You conjure an extradimensional dwelling in range that lasts for the duration. You choose where its one entrance is located. The entrance shimmers faintly and is 5 feet wide and 10 feet tall. You and any creature you designate when you cast the spell can enter the extradimensional dwelling as long as the portal remains open. You can open or close the portal if you are within 30 feet of it. While closed, the portal is invisible.
Beyond the portal is a magnificent foyer with numerous chambers beyond. The atmosphere is clean, fresh, and warm.
You can create any floor plan you like, but the space can’t exceed 50 cubes, each cube being 10 feet on each side. The place is furnished and decorated as you choose. It contains sufficient food to serve a nine-course banquet for up to 100 people. A staff of 100 near-transparent servants attends all who enter. You decide the visual appearance of these servants and their attire. They are completely obedient to your orders. Each servant can perform any task a normal human servant could perform, but they can’t attack or take any action that would directly harm another creature. Thus the servants can fetch things, clean, mend, fold clothes, light fires, serve food, pour wine, and so on. The servants can go anywhere in the mansion but can’t leave it. Furnishings and other objects created by this spell dissipate into smoke if removed from the mansion. When the spell ends, any creatures or objects inside the extradimensional space are expelled into the open spaces nearest to the entrance.

For Tiny Hut, I’d remove the Ritual tag, limit its effects solely to creature movement, non-magical weapons and missile attacks. Attacks from inside will end the spell. Spells and magical effects are not affected.

 

[Shiroiken]

I've got no issues with Rope Trick or Magnificent Mansion. Rope Trick is a fine spell to guarantee a Short Rest while letting the enemy's alert die down a bit, which seems good for a level 2 spell slot. Magnificent Mansion does the same for a long rest, but is much higher level (as it should be). I haven't seen Galdur's Tower, so I can't say anything about it.

Tiny Hut is abusive, even just using the spell as intended, plus there's stupid tricks to use it offensively. It needs to be a 10 minute casting time, and not be a ritual. Additionally, it shouldn't provide an invulnerable defense, but have an AC & HP. This would balance it properly between Rope Trick and Magnificent Mansion IMO.

 

[Mistwell]

Our DM hates these spells, so runs them literally and to the letter of the rules. Rope Trick lasts 1 hour, you have to rest a full hour to get a short rest, but you have to get into the rope trick and then back out of it, and if you don't exit within the hour it disappears and you fall, and he considers getting into or out of a rope trick activity which is "more strenuous than eating, drinking, reading, and tending to wounds" so those two rounds don't count towards a short rest. Which means not quite enough time for a short rest, and after you've already pissed off monsters in an area they come looking for you and stand around readying an action to attack you the moment you leave the rope trick.

And then he does the same for tiny hut.

 

[Zardnaar]

Our DM hates these spells, so runs them literally and to the letter of the rules. Rope Trick lasts 1 hour, you have to rest a full hour to get a short rest, but you have to get into the rope trick and then back out of it, and if you don't exit within the hour it disappears and you fall, and he considers getting into or out of a rope trick activity which is "more strenuous than eating, drinking, reading, and tending to wounds" so those two rounds don't count towards a short rest. Which means not quite enough time for a short rest, and after you've already pissed off monsters in an area they come looking for you and stand around readying an action to attack you the moment you leave the rope trick.

And then he does the same for tiny hut.

I don't do that. I have used dispel magic+ fireball during rest.

NPCs have spellcasters as well.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Leomund's Tiny Hut is just one of those spells, you know the ones, the ones that are really just a little TOO convenient to not take y'know? there are a couple of other in a similar vein to it that are designed to provide some level of 'instant shelter' to the players: rope trick, galder's tower and mordenkainen's magnificent mansion, but i was wondering, as a bit of a creative design exercise, what if we had to take those spells out and had to replace them with new slightly more balanced ones? what are the biggest problems with the existing spells? how would those new spells be designed? how would you do it?

For reference:

Spoiler: rope trick

2nd-level transmutation
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Touch
Components: V, S, M (powdered corn extract and a twisted loop of parchment)
Duration: 1 hour
You touch a length of rope that is up to 60 feet long. One end of the rope then rises into the air until the whole rope hangs perpendicular to the ground. At the upper end of the rope, an invisible entrance opens to an extradimensional space that lasts until the spell ends.
The extradimensional space can be reached by climbing to the top of the rope. The space can hold as many as eight Medium or smaller creatures. The rope can be pulled into the space, making the rope disappear from view outside the space.
Attacks and spells can’t cross through the entrance into or out of the extradimensional space, but those inside can see out of it as if through a 3-foot-by-5-foot window centered on the rope.
Anything inside the extradimensional space drops out when the spell ends.

Spoiler: tiny hut

3rd-level evocation (ritual)
Casting Time: 1 minute
Range: Self (10-foot-radius hemisphere)
Components: V, S, M (a small crystal bead)
Duration: 8 hours
A 10-foot-radius immobile dome of force springs into existence around and above you and remains stationary for the duration. The spell ends if you leave its area.
Nine creatures of Medium size or smaller can fit inside the dome with you. The spell fails if its area includes a larger creature or more than nine creatures. Creatures and objects within the dome when you cast this spell can move through it freely. All other creatures and objects are barred from passing through it. Spells and other magical effects can't extend through the dome or be cast through it. The atmosphere inside the space is comfortable and dry, regardless of the weather outside.
Until the spell ends, you can command the interior to become dimly lit or dark. The dome is opaque from the outside, of any color you choose, but it is transparent from the inside.

Spoiler: galder's tower

3rd-level conjuration
Casting Time: 10 minutes
Range: 30 feet
Components: V, S, M (a fragment of stone, wood, or other building material)
Duration: 24 hours
You conjure a two-story tower made of stone, wood, or similar suitably sturdy materials. The tower can be round or square in shape. Each level of the tower is 10 feet tall and has an area of up to 100 square feet. Access between levels consists of a simple ladder and hatch. Each level takes one of the following forms, chosen by you when you cast the spell:

• A bedroom with a bed, chairs, chest, and magical fireplace
• A study with desks, books, bookshelves, parchments, ink, and ink pens
• A dining space with a table, chairs, magical fireplace, containers, and cooking utensils
• A lounge with couches, armchairs, side tables and footstools
• A washroom with toilets, washtubs, a magical brazier, and sauna benches
• An observatory with a telescope and maps of the night sky
• An unfurnished, empty room

The interior of the tower is warm and dry, regardless of conditions outside. Any equipment or furnishings conjured with the tower dissipate into smoke if removed from it. At the end of the spell’s duration, all creatures and objects within the tower that were not created by the spell appear safely outside on the ground, and all traces of the tower and its furnishings disappear.
You can cast this spell again while it is active to maintain the tower’s existence for another 24 hours. You can create a permanent tower by casting this spell in the same location and with the same configuration every day for one year.
At Higher Levels. When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 4th level or higher, the tower can have one additional story for each slot level beyond 3rd.

Spoiler: mordenkainen's magnificent mansion

7th-level conjuration
Casting Time: 1 minute
Range: 300 feet
Components: V, S, M (a miniature portal carved from ivory, a small piece of polished marble, and a tiny silver spoon, each item worth at least 5 gp)
Duration: 24 hours
You conjure an extradimensional dwelling in range that lasts for the duration. You choose where its one entrance is located. The entrance shimmers faintly and is 5 feet wide and 10 feet tall. You and any creature you designate when you cast the spell can enter the extradimensional dwelling as long as the portal remains open. You can open or close the portal if you are within 30 feet of it. While closed, the portal is invisible.
Beyond the portal is a magnificent foyer with numerous chambers beyond. The atmosphere is clean, fresh, and warm.
You can create any floor plan you like, but the space can’t exceed 50 cubes, each cube being 10 feet on each side. The place is furnished and decorated as you choose. It contains sufficient food to serve a nine-course banquet for up to 100 people. A staff of 100 near-transparent servants attends all who enter. You decide the visual appearance of these servants and their attire. They are completely obedient to your orders. Each servant can perform any task a normal human servant could perform, but they can’t attack or take any action that would directly harm another creature. Thus the servants can fetch things, clean, mend, fold clothes, light fires, serve food, pour wine, and so on. The servants can go anywhere in the mansion but can’t leave it. Furnishings and other objects created by this spell dissipate into smoke if removed from the mansion. When the spell ends, any creatures or objects inside the extradimensional space are expelled into the open spaces nearest to the entrance.

Make them all higher level (+1 ought to do it) and make the Hut not offer any protection from enemies.

 

[Mistwell]

I don't do that. I have used dispel magic+ fireball during rest.

NPCs have spellcasters as well.

Yes he's done that too. Recently in fact. It's forced us to find a secure area to rest, which means more encounters between rests, which was exactly the result he wanted. I hear people say they have 2 encounters total in an adventuring day, with a short rest in between them, and I think that's an alien concept. That's literally never happened to us, in the 11 years of playing 5e.