D&D General If we were re-designing the Tiny Hut-esc 'instant shelter' spells what would we change?

[GrimCo]

Can you just dig under the edge of a tiny hut? It creates a dome shaped force. Is that a globe that surrounds you underground as well?

Reading it RAW, you should be able to. It says - springs around and above you. Nothing in the description says anything about it creating floor or going below ground- A 10-foot-radius immobile dome of force springs into existence around and above you and remains stationary for the duration.

In comparison, 3e description - You create an unmoving, opaque sphere of force of any color you desire around yourself. Half the sphere projects above the ground, and the lower hemisphere passes through the ground.

Tiny hut isn't that overpowered. Sure, you can't be hit by object or spell. But you can't shoot from inside ether.

 

[Oofta]

As I said above, one of the few house rules I have is that you cannot attack anything outside of the hut. That cuts back from a lot of abuse. As far as whether there's a floor, I see no reason for there to be one unless you want to make the spell even more powerful than written.

I could also see weakening the spell, it has an AC 15 and 50 hit points (or whatever numbers you think are appropriate). Give it additional HP and AC if you cast it at a higher level. If an enemy finds you it will only protect you for a while.

 

[Oofta]

it would be a nice and easy counter, but I think it also has a forcefield floor.

The 2014 version specifically states "A 10-foot-radius immobile dome...". A dome is just an inverted bowl, the only way a home has a flat surface on the bottom would be if it's solid which would kind of defeat the purpose.

 

[GrimCo]

Yup. So if you are up to some shenenigans as a dm, drop couple of badgers inside the dome. Those buggers can burrow. Also, people in game tend to forget that moment the caster comes out of Tiny house, spell goes puff. So if your bard or wizard goes outside cause natures call, there goes tiny hut.

 

[TiQuinn]

Why is it undermining the PCs to have the enemy take appropriate countermeasures? In one scenario the group was trying to avoid a group of hobgoblins while behind enemy lines. The NPCs didn't have a caster (although I did roll to see if they could find one in time), but they still proceeded to barricaded the PCs in and set up a kill zone because it would have been the logical thing for them to do. They know you're there. They know you're dangerous. Of course they're going to take every step possible to defeat you.

If the enemy has up to 8 hours to prepare from a known threat in a known location they aren't going to forget you existed. They will do something. It's not some computer game where you can take out a dozen enemies and just sit for a while without attacking until the threat meter goes away. Even with rope trick an hour long wait is not long enough to go from "Someone is invading and killing guards" to "I guess it's back to normal now, everybody take a nap" in my opinion.

Waiting 8 hours is not undermining the spell. That’s a logical ramification, and the party gets the full benefit of the spell. Having every NPC group have access to Dispel Magic for purposes of getting rid of Tiny Huts is undermining the spell.

But beyond that, I’m just not a fan of spells and abilities that circumvent whole parts of the game or do so for negligible cost. The spell is effectively “Guaranteed Long Rest.” Okay, fine. What should be the cost of a guaranteed long rest whenever the party wants it? I think it should be more than a 3rd level spell prerequisite - I hesitate to say “cost” because it’s a ritual spell, there effectively is no “cost” to casting it.

 

[Oofta]

Waiting 8 hours is not undermining the spell. That’s a logical ramification, and the party gets the full benefit of the spell. Having every NPC group have access to Dispel Magic for purposes of getting rid of Tiny Huts is undermining the spell.

But beyond that, I’m just not a fan of spells and abilities that circumvent whole parts of the game or do so for negligible cost. The spell is effectively “Guaranteed Long Rest.” Okay, fine. What should be the cost of a guaranteed long rest whenever the party wants it? I think it should be more than a 3rd level spell prerequisite - I hesitate to say “cost” because it’s a ritual spell, there effectively is no “cost” to casting it.

I did not say every group of NPCs has access to dispel magic. I'm saying that they would take countermeasures. The point is they're going to do something that will make the first fight once the hut drops significantly more difficult. That could be but is not limited to

• Blocking off entrances and exits to the cave the PCs are in
• If in an enclosed area (e.g. a cave) starting fires that will fill the area with noxious fumes that will affect the PCs once the spell drops
• Setting up traps and defenses
• Calling in allies
• Taking the McGuffin the PCs are after and leaving.
• Burying the hut with with oil soaked logs*, rocks or some other material and waiting with every NPC in the area.
• Flooding the area.

Imagine if the DM set up a scenario where the NPCs were the ones who had invaded and cast tiny hut in the village you have sworn to protect. You don't have dispel magic and can't get it in time. What would your group do? Why would intelligent NPCs not do the same?

*with some source of fire at the top that will tip or fall over when the hut goes away.

 

[TiQuinn]

I did not say every group of NPCs has access to dispel magic. I'm saying that they would take countermeasures.

Yes but the poster I was responding to gave that as an example, and I was pointing out the problem with that. I don’t know if maybe you didn’t see who I was responding to.

 

[Oofta]

Yes but the poster I was responding to gave that as an example, and I was pointing out the problem with that. I don’t know if maybe you didn’t see who I was responding to.

I'm just pointing out that dispel magic is not the only thing that can be done if the PCs use tiny hut.

Again, imagine if your group was on the other side of this scenario. You don't happen to have dispel magic and a dangerous enemy is at your doorstep. You and your allies have up to 8 hours to counter them. What do you do?

 

[Horwath]

The 2014 version specifically states "A 10-foot-radius immobile dome...". A dome is just an inverted bowl, the only way a home has a flat surface on the bottom would be if it's solid which would kind of defeat the purpose.

it says that it keeps atmosphere comfortable and dry, it's hard to to that when a 3rd of your house does not have any outer walls.

 

[TiQuinn]

I'm just pointing out that dispel magic is not the only thing that can be done if the PCs use tiny hut.

Again, imagine if your group was on the other side of this scenario. You don't happen to have dispel magic and a dangerous enemy is at your doorstep. You and your allies have up to 8 hours to counter them. What do you do?

The party is fully rested, cannot be targeted with spells, can choose not to be seen because the dome is opaque, so it’s less of an issue. But again, from a meta perspective, it forces an escalation from the DM’s side to counterbalance a spell that is too powerful for its spell level. You even said earlier in this thread that you would adjust or have house rules for the spell. Does that not indicate the spell is overpowered?