D&D 5E 2024 Monster Manual has better lore than 2014 Monster Manual

[Micah Sweet]

The Kuo Toa entry for the MM spends at least half its considerable word count dealing with the various % of a creature carrying a certain weapon, the chance of various combinations of leveled Kuo toa and the ratios they come in. All of which is likely to be ignored by any DM of any ability. If you were new it is actively detrimental.

Add to the that the fact that the writing is rambling and verbose. Mechanical effects like how an attack works are hidden in walls of text. It’s riddled with spelling mistakes. The stat block is arcane and large parts are irrelevent.

I have great fondness and nostalgia for the MM2 book and its compendiums. But to say it’s the best of bestiary is gobsmacking. I’ve included the Kuo Toa entry so people can see I’m not exaggerating.

Spoiler: MM2 Kuo Toa

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I stand by it. We're allowed to feel differently.

 

[pukunui]

I am a pessimist when it comes to corporate decision-making. My opinion is that the WotC brass were concerned that any lore they provide could be taken poorly by some loud segment of the population and garner them bad press through the usual social media outlets (as every choice they make is seen and publicly and globally judged), so they decided to minimize lore in any areas their consultants saw as potential flashpoints of dissent and fill the space with additional statblocks and tables.

As I said we'll never know. I wouldn't have even laid all this out if I wasn't asked a direct question (I know talking about this irritates people).

That may have been a consideration but I highly doubt it was the main one. I think it’s far more likely that they simply cut fluff text so they could cram more monsters in.

 

[kayakingpoodle]

The lore still exists. The only folks bothered by the lore are those that already know it. And therefore by definition are not affected by the changes.

New players won’t know, and if they research to find out what they are missing - which frankly is as simple as a google search - they now know the lore and therefore haven’t missed out.

The MM lore criticism is a complete red herring.

This is how things are lost. I want to buy books and play D&D, not world build and research things that imo should STILL be in the books I buy.

fizban's treasury of dragons and bigby presents glory of the giants might disagree with that assessment (and let is not forget volo's guide to monsters and mordenkainen's tome of foes), not to mention planescape: adventures in the multiverse. There has been quite a bit of monster and setting lore released in the near past.
Though I do feel it is unlikely that setting guides will fill in all the missing monster group lore.

Volo's and Tome of Foes are legacied (gone) they were stripped of lore and condensed into Monsters of the Multiverse. This is where this new push to remove lore started.

For me the 2024 MM does a much better job of communicating the lore of the monsters with their art entries than the 2014 MM.

For those able to interpret art this is likely true, many myself included just see the art as a visual of the monster nothing more.

 

[Azzy]

To me stripping the lore away is stealing their identity from them. Lore can be ignored it if you want, but having the lore as canon is what keeps the creature from just being invasive species with no real history, they just are for no reason.

looks back at 1e MM, and BX/BECMI/RC

 

[kayakingpoodle]

I want to say, the book is printed and not changing i get that. Much like the direction the game is headed. I am just voicing my opinion that it is bad for the game. Can someone research the things being removed, sure but how many will? This is how things are lost to time, and while the lore is not strictly necessary to play the game it is a huge part of the game for many and not something easily replaced in a meaningful way. To me this is a lot like RAW/RAI, and you can't have RAI without RAW, removing lore is taking a lot of fun discussion away from the game simply because it is not in the books. Sure some do not use the lore or have fun debates about it, but plenty do, and for many of those the core 3 may be the only books they buy. Because of that those 3 books are the end all be all of these debates. Lore removal is fun removal.

That said I am off to find the party wizard. (Another bit of fun removed from the game)

 

[Corinnguard]

This! I was shocked coming back to D&D to find one monster manual and MotM. I remember when 3.x had several monster books and NG did Tome of Horrors to bring all the classic monsters back into the game. There are still plenty of classic monsters that need updated and returning to the game.

I know that someone on DMsGuild a while back created their own Expanded Monster Manuals for 5e. What's WoTC's excuse?

 

[dave2008]

Volo's and Tome of Foes are legacied (gone) they were stripped of lore and condensed into Monsters of the Multiverse. This is where this new push to remove lore started.

Nope, they still exist. They are right over there on my shelf.

 

[dave2008]

I know that someone on DMsGuild a while back created their own Expanded Monster Manuals for 5e. What's WoTC's excuse?

Costs. Those books do very well for the author, but the sales are a tiny fraction of the sales WotC gets and would not justify the cost to make the book (much higher overhead). Now, I would guess WotC could get much greater sales.

Personally, I am all for a generic monster book with less lore then we have in 5e24 MM. However, I would want many more monster books that give extensive lore and options for settings and groups of monsters (like demons, devils, dragons, etc.).

 

[kayakingpoodle]

Nope, they still exist. They are right over there on my shelf.

Mine too, and in my DDB account, but a new player only has the stripped down multiverse option.

Yes i know physical copies are outthere but I don't think it's fair to include them as one can't just pick a copy up at stocking retailers.

It is the new players that will suffer the most.

 

[Corinnguard]

Fizban's Treasury of Dragons aka Draconomicon 5e.