D&D General Languages suck in D&D.

[Minigiant]

Again the the question is

Are to creating your languages for verisimilitude or gaming?

One has to take priority over the other

 

[DarkCrisis]

I just want to say about D&D languages:

Having started to learn ASL, I'm super thrilled to have Common Hand Language as an option.

And speaking of ASL, everyone watch CODA (only on Apple tv for some stupid reason) (but there are other ways....) it's a very funny and heartwarming film.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Again the the question is

Are to creating your languages for verisimilitude or gaming?

One has to take priority over the other

Y'all know my answer to that question (unless practicality demands otherwise, of course). If the world lacks versimillitude it could have without compromising needed playability, the game is literally less fun for me.

 

[Lanefan]

Because then.theyd have to reconcile why there is only 1 language for the other major races.

D&D already has too many languages for a game with no concrete social mechanical subsystem

The number of languages in the game (or setting) and the presence-absence of social mechanics are IMO almost completely unrelated.

 

[Lanefan]

That answer depends on how humans came into existence? In most fantasy worlds it isn't evolution, so for instance if a large group who all spoke the same language were transported from a different world into this one, then yeah they speak the same language and even as they spread out and grow they might still all speak the same language.

Depends how long ago they spread out and-or how isolated the spread-out groups became.

Language evolves much faster than we tend to realize, even more so if there's no written form. Thus, if the spreading-out happened as recently as just 1000 years ago the different groups by now probably have developed almost entirely different languages even if using the same root.

EDIT to add: and even a continuing culture changes its language dramatically over time. If you or I were dropped into 13th-century England, for example, we'd barely understand a thing even though they're in theory speaking the same language we are.

 

[Sorinth]

Depends how long ago they spread out and-or how isolated the spread-out groups became.

Language evolves much faster than we tend to realize, even more so if there's no written form. Thus, if the spreading-out happened as recently as just 1000 years ago the different groups by now probably have developed almost entirely different languages even if using the same root.

EDIT to add: and even a continuing culture changes its language dramatically over time. If you or I were dropped into 13th-century England, for example, we'd barely understand a thing even though they're in theory speaking the same language we are.

For sure, which is why I brought up things like travel, in a world with sky ships where people can easily travel then major cities aren't going to be as isolated as they were on Earth. Literacy levels is typically assumed to be at more modern levels in a D&D world rather then historical levels, which is also going to help prevent divergence of language. So even as a language evolves over time, different places will evolve together more so then what we saw on Earth.

 

[Hussar]

Language rules are in the same category as equipment wear and tear. It should be in the game. It makes far too much sense. You whack on a stone golem with your sword, you bend your sword. Your clothes and backpack get shredded by the claws of some nasty monster. So on and so forth.

And, on paper, it’s a great idea.

But then the rubber meets the road and it turns out that tracking hit points for a couple of dozen equipment items is far, far too much of a PITA. So, like weapon vs armor rules, most groups just ignore it.

I’m running Out of the Abyss and Undercommon is not a language any 2024 pc can start with. The module gives a universal translator to the party in the very first scene. Because the designers know that making it harder to talk to npcs is not going to make for a fun game.

 

[Minigiant]

Y'all know my answer to that question (unless practicality demands otherwise, of course). If the world lacks versimillitude it could have without compromising needed playability, the game is literally less fun for me.

The problem is it can't.
It's the fundamental issue D&D fans struggle with.

At some point, at the last point, you have to choose looks, story, or gameplay.

I just looked up the umber hulk monster.
It speaks umber hulk.
No PC in there right mind will have knowledge of speaking umber hulk before meeting a humblehawk unless they were purposely going to meet in umber hulk.

You will never ever having a standard PC in a regular D&D adventuring party knowing Umber hulk at the point that a random encounter gives them an umber hulk to speak to.

So if your gameplay is based around one of your PCs knowing umber hulk then you've designed a language system that fails it's gameplay because of its aesthetic desires.

This right here is the core issue D&D has way too many languages for what it sees as its default language game.

D&D fails it's default language game so badly that people create a new language game in order to work around the original games language aesthetic.

You have to either choose a language game and then make your Languages match the game. Or you create your languages then make a game for it.

The issue is language list and the language game for 5 editions and many spinoffs was made separately.

 

[Minigiant]

The number of languages in the game (or setting) and the presence-absence of social mechanics are IMO almost completely unrelated.

Not social mechanics.

Language mechanics.

Learning languages and language known is a mechanic.

 

[Lanefan]

For sure, which is why I brought up things like travel, in a world with sky ships where people can easily travel then major cities aren't going to be as isolated as they were on Earth. Literacy levels is typically assumed to be at more modern levels in a D&D world rather then historical levels, which is also going to help prevent divergence of language. So even as a language evolves over time, different places will evolve together more so then what we saw on Earth.

In my view the bolded is a massive error.