GMing without an inner monologue.

[Crimson Longinus]

I was thinking about this a while ago, when I read or heard people discussion about what language they think in. And that seemed weird to me. Like sure, I can think in "inner speech" and if I do it is in some language. But that is just when I am thinking about how to express something. Like when I though about how to respond in this post I though in words, and it was in English even though that's not my native language, as that's the language I'd need to use to write here.

But most of my thoughts, I don't believe they're words. Sometimes thoughts are visual, but like @Retros_x excellently puts it, most of the time thoughts are just thoughts, pure concepts. And to me it is wild that this is not how everyone does it. Like surely words are merely things we use to communicate the concepts, but they're not the concepts themselves? I wonder if there is relationship with this words being seen as the same thing than concepts and being monolingual? Like if you speak several languages, it is rather obvious that the words are merely representations of concepts rather than concepts themselves, but if you only speak one language that might be less obvious...

But some people thinking purely in words also explains some wild opinions I've sometimes seen about animal intelligence. Like I've seen people doubt animal capability to think and reason because they have no language, and that always seemed weird to me.

 

[aramis erak]

I just got done watching The Killer (2023) which features a character that is constantly thinking to himself. Once it was over, I hopped online to read other's reviews of it and became puzzled at a few responses that didn't understand the "inner monologuing" that was happening. That led me down a rabbit hole of discovering that only around 50% of people do this?

I've talked about my inability to imagine pictures, like in this thread here, but the inability "to talk" inside one's head is new to me. Personally, my brain doesn't... shut... up... ever, and I kind of just assumed that was how everyone's brain worked.

Anyway, this got me thinking about TTRPGs (like everything does) and how it was possible to DM without verbal dialogue in your head. For instance, how do you decide what an NPC might say? When creating maps, encounters, etc., are you really mentally silent the entire time?

I'm always blown away by how unique we all are and curious to hear other's thoughts and experiences.

I have a rich inner monologue, sometimes my brain dissociates the character and I just ask them internally. More often, it's more like just letting me channel the character. Any major recurrent character has a dissociative aspect. Core me is always aware and in charge, but the dissociative bits can result in some self-surprise.

I also often have slightly fuzzy but strong mental images.

As I write this, I'm hearing myself "speaking" it internally. Often, my fingers are too slow so I wind up repeating, sometimes even rephrasing as I write. This paragraph was spoken, no, audiolyzed, about 8 times, in chunks, before I managed to get it typed. And about 30 typoes corrected on the fly.

When I was conversational in Russian, I sometimes thought in Russian. I don't think in ASL, tho' - I'm marginally conversational in ASL, and took it more recently.

 

[aramis erak]

One other thought... Someone mentioned animal intelligence as "like ours, but littler." I was on the fence for years about Koko the gorilla and her signing. Then I saw very similar signing from my nephews (who are CODAs)... once I learned ASL, I found it fairly easy to understand Koko's signs. Comparable to a native ASL "speaker" of age 2-3...

We don't know about non-primate thought because the only species we've had bi-directional linguistic communications with are Parrots, Chimps, Bonobos, and Gorillas.

Koko's use of language (and innovating new compound signs) shows a broad scope that our closest living species think within the same ranges as our children... I think it would be an interesting exercise to interview a few of the chimps and/or bonobos about whether they see signs in their heads... but that's probably going to be a no-go. (Bonobos have been said to sign better than chimps or gorillas.)

 

[Bagpuss]

But here's a description from the opposite perspective:
[Video of Hank Green snipped]

Okay after listening to Hank I don't think I have an internal monologue most of the time, until I try and put ideas into words. I mean as I type I am thinking about the words, but really only because I am typing. I'm not really hearing them before I type them however they just seem to flow after each other.

I do occasionally think in words, but more it's nebulous concepts until I need to formulate them into something more concrete. I can switch off completely think about nothing, just focus on breathing for example and the experience of that, no words going on at all.

Most of the time I am living in the now, I experience the moment, without some inner monologue describing it or thinking words about the future.

Anyway, this got me thinking about TTRPGs (like everything does) and how it was possible to DM without verbal dialogue in your head. For instance, how do you decide what an NPC might say? When creating maps, encounters, etc., are you really mentally silent the entire time?

I have a concept of the motivations and goals of the NPC in my head and then I think as that character would think, and the words just come out like when I speak myself.

Maps I doing some artistic process imagining the image I want to create and then making my best attempt to put that down on paper or in photoshop.

I am not thinking "I need to pick a 2B pencil, draw a line here" in my head I'm just doing it, although is that what people with internal monologue are thinking, or are they sort of talking to themselves, "I think a town would be right here." As they draw a town? Or are you thinking about completely unrelated stuff.

 

[Larnievc]

I just got done watching The Killer (2023) which features a character that is constantly thinking to himself. Once it was over, I hopped online to read other's reviews of it and became puzzled at a few responses that didn't understand the "inner monologuing" that was happening. That led me down a rabbit hole of discovering that only around 50% of people do this?

I've talked about my inability to imagine pictures, like in this thread here, but the inability "to talk" inside one's head is new to me. Personally, my brain doesn't... shut... up... ever, and I kind of just assumed that was how everyone's brain worked.

Anyway, this got me thinking about TTRPGs (like everything does) and how it was possible to DM without verbal dialogue in your head. For instance, how do you decide what an NPC might say? When creating maps, encounters, etc., are you really mentally silent the entire time?

I'm always blown away by how unique we all are and curious to hear other's thoughts and experiences.

I’m a forever DM and I have a constant internal monologue often making observations or narrating what I’m doing. When I was a kid I’d imagine I was always on TV (not really I just liked imagining it).

I still kind of do it now (I’m 51) but not nearly as much.

I also get assailed by images when I talk and something I say acts as a memory trigger. My mental images are really vivid sometimes even blocking out my real world vision for a split second. Sometimes I lose track of what I’m saying when that happens.

It makes imagining and running through D&D encounters easy.

 

[Duke_]

I wonder if there is relationship with this words being seen as the same thing than concepts and being monolingual? Like if you speak several languages, it is rather obvious that the words are merely representations of concepts rather than concepts themselves, but if you only speak one language that might be less obvious...

I highly doubt this based on anecdotal experience. Most people I know who say they have very active internal monologue have strong language skills. From personal experience, my internal monologue will be in Spanish from time to time (which is not my first language).

You also proceed from a false assumption that people with an internal monologue think words and concepts are the same thing. It's not like people with an internal monologue don't or can't think in abstract concepts.

 

[Bohandas]

Is it now we start up the Sapir-Whorf vs Chomsky fight?

Can't they both be wrong

 

[aramis erak]

Can't they both be wrong

Yep. More importantly, they both can be partially right or even mostly right.

 

[Retros_x]

It's not like people with an internal monologue don't or can't think in abstract concepts.

I think a lot of peoply do both depending on context. And yes thats exactly what I say to monologue thinkers who can't imagine how I think most of the time: I say: Think about government. Do you have a monologe explaining the concept of government to you right now? Most answer no, so they use the same thinking like I do. And I think it goes vice versa, most non-monologue thinker can turn on their monologue if they for example write out a message or letter and think about the words.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Most answer no, so they use the same thinking like I do

They know what the word means, there is no need to think about it, same as they don’t need to think about the meaning of any other word in a monologue.

If you say “what is government?” then the answer takes the form of a monologue.