WotC Mike Mearls: "D&D Is Uncool Again"

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In Mike Mearls' recent interview with Ben Riggs, he talks about how he feels that Dungeons & Dragons has had its moment, and is now uncool again. Mearls was one of the lead designers of D&D 5E and became the franchise's Creative Director in 2018. He worked at WotC until he was laid off in 2023. He is now EP of roleplaying games at Chaosium, the publisher of Call of Chulhu.

My theory is that when you look back at the OGL, the real impact of it is that it made D&D uncool again. D&D was cool, right? You had Joe Manganiello and people like that openly talking about playing D&D. D&D was something that was interesting, creative, fun, and different. And I think what the OGL did was take that concept—that Wizards and this idea of creativity that is inherent in the D&D brand because it's a roleplaying game, and I think those two things were sundered. And I don’t know if you can ever put them back together.

I think, essentially, it’s like that phrase: The Mandate of Heaven. I think fundamentally what happened was that Wizards has lost the Mandate of Heaven—and I don’t see them even trying to get it back.

What I find fascinating is that it was Charlie Hall who wrote that article. This is the same Charlie Hall who wrote glowing reviews of the 5.5 rulebooks. And then, at the same time, he’s now writing, "This is your chance because D&D seems to be stumbling." How do you square that? How do I go out and say, "Here are the two new Star Wars movies. They’re the best, the most amazing, the greatest Star Wars movies ever made. By the way, Star Wars has never been weaker. Now is the time for other sci-fi properties", like, to me that doesn’t make any sense! To me, it’s a context thing again.

Maybe this is the best Player’s Handbook ever written—but the vibes, the audience, the people playing these games—they don’t seem excited about it. We’re not seeing a groundswell of support and excitement. Where are the third-party products? That’s what I'd ask. Because that's what you’d think, "oh, there’s a gap", I mean remember before the OGL even came up, back when 3.0 launched, White Wolf had a monster book. There were multiple adventures at Gen Con. The license wasn’t even official yet, and there were already adventures showing up in stores. We're not seeing that, what’s ostensibly the new standard going forward? If anything, we’re seeing the opposite—creators are running in the opposite direction. I mean, that’s where I’m going.

And hey—to plug my Patreon—patreon.com/mikemearls (one word). This time last year, when I was looking at my post-Wizards options, I thought, "Well, maybe I could start doing 5E-compatible stuff." And now what I’m finding is…I just don’t want to. Like—it just seems boring. It’s like trying to start a hair metal band in 1992. Like—No, no, no. Everyone’s mopey and we're wearing flannel. It's Seattle and rain. It’s Nirvana now, man. It’s not like Poison. And that’s the vibe I get right now, yeah, Poison was still releasing albums in the ’90s. They were still selling hundreds of thousands or a million copies. But they didn’t have any of the energy. It's moved on. But what’s interesting to me is that roleplaying game culture is still there. And that’s what I find fascinating about gaming in general—especially TTRPGs. I don’t think we’ve ever had a period where TTRPGs were flourishing, and had a lot of energy and excitement around them, and D&D wasn’t on the upswing. Because I do think that’s what’s happening now. We’re in very strange waters where I think D&D is now uncool.
 

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of course it is, is every product a book?
I guess my question would be, what would WotC have sold that sold more than books? Since all books are products, then the 2024 books sold faster than any other book. Additionally they sold faster than any other product as well.

But what non-book products does WotC sell? Since you agree that books are products then what’s your point in trying to spin this as a negative?
 


that doesn’t tell us anything about whether WotC does


other than them specifically saying product rather than book and them being very intentional in their wording no. To me that is still more than for the case that they include them, as that does not account for intentionality.

I am playing the odds here because WotC is generally not forthcoming with clear information so they can put the best spin on things. You seem to play against the odds just because there is a chance for the other outcome

Also there are the inconveniently (for you) lower analog sales of 2024 vs 2023. Let me know if you have anything to support your ‘conclusion’ or whether all you have is (justified) uncertainty of mine, because if it is the latter we at best disagree about probabilities and this will go nowhere

Although not all products are books, for HASBRO all books they sell are products. I am making no conclusions on sales, digital or otherwise because we just don't know and likely will never know specific details.

The only conclusion I have come to is that you want to make this into a big issue for reasons that I can't fathom. I see no reason it would matter if they used the word product and book, including e-books, interchangeably in this context.
 

of course it is, is every product a book?
depends on what your definition of a book is. 🫣

I read someplace that amazon lists D&D books as games now and not books and as such the discount for the product is in a different scale. Of course I do t have a source as I’m very very lazy.

Could this distinction be why they aren’t calling books books anymore? Could it also be that this production of the book outsold not just other book productions; but also all products and as such they want to brag about the fact that (yes this is a run on sentence) this book they produced outsold all the Stuff they manufactured?
 

I guess my question would be, what would WotC have sold that sold more than books?
DDB copies of the PHB, VTT copies of the PHB

Since all books are products, then the 2024 books sold faster than any other book.
no, the printed books, DDB licenses and VTT licenses combined outsold what Tasha’s sold across these lines after release. That is the product vs product comparison, as opposed to printed books where Tasha’s still outsold the 2024 PHB, in my interpretation, which also aligns with Tasha being on some bestseller lists longer and at higher ranks than the new PHB
 
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