D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

[Lanefan]

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Badass/iconic, imho.

But "historical realism" it ain't.

Well, if for no other reason than she's riding a unicorn...

I think if people focused more on what they did like that modern art doesn't always do - like "more use of actual models to paint" from, "actually physically painting rather than using digital tools", "moody lighting and mysterious imagery" (as opposed to the more action-y art we often see now), "mysterious or troubled characters" (as opposed to the friendly/relatable or steadfast characters more common now), conversations about art could be more productive.

When it comes to art, I like what I like and don't like what I don't like. Problem is, what I like and-or don't like can change from day to day depending on a bunch of factors not least of which is the mood I happen to be in at the time.

Sometimes, for example, I look at the 1e art and think it's damn cool. Other times I look at the same art and think "bleah".

That said, there's certain general themes in the art of different editions that either please me or annoy me. An example of one that annoyed me immensely was the 3e-era phase - both in art and in minis - that had everyone carrying ridiculously oversized weapons.

 

[Bravesteel25]

Plenty of medieval Europeans did trade with "Moors" (read: black Africans), Arabs, all sorts of things.

Emphasis mine.

I completely agree that there is a wide level of romantacism within "medieval" portrayals in RPGs and elsewhere. Heck, this erasure and revision extends to this statement. The erasure of the Amazigh as the Moors and insisting they are sub-saharan Africans is an extremely modern take substantiated by one painting done at the end of Moorish influence in Spain and the Euro-centric viewpoint of describing and depicting everyone that wasn't white as "dark" in literary/artistic sources all for the edification of individuals who insist an entire continent consists of one particular group of people.

I point this out, not to start an argument, but to show that everyone can harbor unknown biases based on how history, art, and literature has been presented to them.

I don't think we should necassarily throw out things that are uncomfortable, just for the sake of throwing them out, because then that would encompass a wide range of topics and restrict our expression in the game significantly. But, whether those themes should be presented in a company's product in such a way that it could be seen as supporting one particular viewpoint over another? I'm not sure and I don't know if there is really a good answer.

I think the best companies can do is to address such things up front like WotC has done for old content on the DMs Guild with the disclaimer about different times and attitudes etc.

 

[Lanefan]

I never made fun of Thaco. Personally it made sense to me but I could take it or leave it.

I never used THAC0 and never had any use for it despite being of that era.

That they mocked it with Thaco the Clown is fine by me, but then to me the whole world (including me) exists to be mocked, if only because so much of it is itself a mockery.

I appreciate a good mockery even if-when I'm its direct target.

 

[Lanefan]

Ascending AC just makes "sense"? Having everything be additive instead of inconsistently positives and minuses. There's no need for derision about older D&D rules, things just evolve. That's progress.

Like listing a monster's damage as 2d6 instead of 2-12.

Thing is, listing it as 2-12 gives you two options (pick one and stick with it) - roll 2d6 or roll d12 ignoring 1s - depending on whether you want the results to be on a bell curve or linear.

Particularly relevant if the damage is 3-12, which could mean 3d4 or d10+2.

 

[Faolyn]

Gnomes were originally added to the game as a parody of Dutch people (check out the hats and clogs) but people in the Netherlands have a good laugh about it.

I thought it was because of that Gnomes book--which is, in fact, from the Netherlands.

 

[Lanefan]

What gets me about THAC0 was it was fiddly enough that even if you did have math-intelligence, you sometimes doubted yourself and had to redo the calculation, or more rarely, actually got it wrong. Like, I got As in maths at a school that was frequently the #1 school for maths in the UK, and I was being slowed by it!

Just absolutely needed to be replaced, and it was trivial to replace it as it turned out!

Personally I find the arithmetic around descending AC (which I still use) to be easier when not using THAC0. THAC0 just adds an extra step and an extra number to the calculations I-as-DM have to make anyway.

 

[Faolyn]

But so far, no one has indicated that they felt mocked or insulted by « I’m a monster, Rawr! ».

Personally, I always found that bit hilarious. Although in retrospect, kind of silly because in 2e, gnomes (and everyone else) had always been in the MM. Sorry, MC, at least until they did the hardback Monstrous Manual.

 

[Micah Sweet]

One of my personal gripes on D&D conservatism.is on weapons and armor.

So what if it's not psuedo-Medieval-Renaissance Britian coded.

Put the double sword, giant sword, Aztec macuahuitl club swords, hookswords, giant pizza cutters, cloak shields, ultra heavy armor, and paint that makes your skin hard as steel in the back of one of the main books and make it official options.

"Just roleplay it and refluff a sword"

Nah bud. My fighter fights with a cloud giant's old enchanted pizza cutter.

I don't need those as official options. They're all in my houserule doc.

 

[Remathilis]

apart from retweeting Elon Musk’s upset posts about how the WotC book was mistreating poor old Gary… not a good take

That lost me a LOT of respect for TLG. Bad taste in my mouth.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I think people that had issue with it likely experienced/participated with the venom online by posters. I never bought the AP (still busy with 3 others) and just heard about Thaco the Clown from threads here.
I thought it was a cool inside joke.
Many self proclaimed grognards here often make the "get of my lawn" joke. It's all in good spirit.
I guess like many things in life it's how you encountered the news dictates heavily how you are likely to react to it.

EDIT: My background is BECMI/2e era and I loved Thaco. I didn't think it was difficult at all but there were certainly friends at my table who couldn't do the math in their head and had to consult the mini table on their character sheets.

That table, for my group, made thaco not a problem.