D&D General So what about the SRDs?

[Dire Bare]

The statement is here:

https://www.dndbeyond.com/posts/171...WxFG_A0ltcq-wITjMQy0ZOLCw5Qxhx48lE9Olby-styVM

"In 2016, two years after the debut of Dungeons & Dragons fifth edition, we released the accompanying SRD 5.1, allowing our amazing community of creators to publish content compatible with the game. We’re proud to report that SRD 5.2 will be released within weeks of the release of the 2025 Monster Manual!"

Is it a "promise"? I guess not. Is it a public commitment? I'd say so. It was something they were "proud to report", exclamation point.

You're not alone in your sentiment that WotC has somehow broken promises to fans . . . . but I've never understood this sentiment.

They're late on the timeline they shared with us in your link. So? Life happens.

I'll be concerned if at some point they publicly walk back that committment, or a truly serious amount of time passes . . . if we get the 5.2 SRD before the end of THIS YEAR, I'm happy. If we get at least one of the classic SRDs by the end of next year, I'm happy.

If WotC makes a new announcement, revising their expected timeline for the SRD releases, I'll be good.

Y'all need to relax.

 

[Burnside]

You're not alone in your sentiment that WotC has somehow broken promises to fans . . . . but I've never understood this sentiment.

They're late on the timeline they shared with us in your link. So? Life happens.

I'll be concerned if at some point they publicly walk back that committment, or a truly serious amount of time passes . . . if we get the 5.2 SRD before the end of THIS YEAR, I'm happy. If we get at least one of the classic SRDs by the end of next year, I'm happy.

If WotC makes a new announcement, revising their expected timeline for the SRD releases, I'll be good.

Y'all need to relax.

I didn't say that "WotC has broken promises to fans".

I said that their recent history concerning this exact issue (SRDs) is lousy, and their past actions in this specific area create justifiable distrust from the fans with regard to the SRDs. I'm sure you do understand why that is, even if maybe the SRD/OGL crisis of early 2023 didn't personally affect you.

As for the rest, I agree with you. Anytime this year is fine for me.

 

[Dire Bare]

I didn't say that "WotC has broken promises to fans".

I said that their recent history concerning this exact issue (SRDs) is lousy, and their past actions in this specific area create justifiable distrust from the fans with regard to the SRDs. I'm sure you do understand why that is, even if maybe the SRD/OGL crisis of early 2023 didn't personally affect you.

As for the rest, I agree with you. Anytime this year is fine for me.

Your term above was "reneged" and your tone suggests you are upset they are breaking promises, commitments . . .

WotC, of course, tried to revoke the OGL, then walked that back and released the 5.1 SRD into CC and announced they'd do the same for classic editions. Other than that, what is their "recent history" concerning the SRD?

 

[Burnside]

Your term above was "reneged" and your tone suggests you are upset they are breaking promises, commitments . . .

WotC, of course, tried to revoke the OGL, then walked that back and released the 5.1 SRD into CC and announced they'd do the same for classic editions. Other than that, what is their "recent history" concerning the SRD?

This is getting too pedantic. They've made a public, clear, written commitment to release an updated SRD "within weeks" of the new Monster Manual. What I said was that if they don't, they will have reneged on that commitment. Will it be the crime of the century? No. Will they have made a public commitment and not honored it? Yes. I guess renege came off as like a really charged word to you, but I really just meant they'd then not be doing the thing they publicly said they were "proud" to be doing.

What they did in 2023 doesn't require an "other than that". That is the recent, lousy history to which I was referring. It was really bad, and it created an atmosphere of suspicion and distrust regarding the SRDs and the OGL. I was very happy with the ultimate outcome (which followed a series of initially tone-deaf messages and statements) of the 5.1 SRD going into Creative Commons, but I very much understand why folks still don't totally trust WotC on this issue.

 

[DEFCON 1]

Heh heh... I'll be honest here... I remember way back in like 2015 or so, prior to the free 'Elemental Evil' bonus "splat" supplement that WotC released in conjunction with Princes Of The Apocalypse... some rando on the internet went dumpster diving through various websites and on like Amazon(?) or someplace and they found a preliminary holding card for some hardcover splatbook that WotC was in theory going to announce and release at some point. Everyone of course went nutso over this, as people had been clamoring for splatbooks the very next year following 5E14's release, even though WotC continually said they were taking things slow and that no splatbooks were forthcoming.

When this holding card got found and then announced to places like this... that WotC WAS intending on releasing a splatbook because this "save the date" card or whatever was buried within Amazon's(?) system... WotC had to come out and tell people that no, that card was not correct and that no splatbook was forthcoming.

And people LOST THEIR EVER - LOVING - SHHHHHHIIIIIIIIIIIII...

People accused WotC of LYING to them and cancelling this book... despite the fact that no product had EVER been announced by WotC. And in fact if that rando hadn't gone digging into what I remember as being "locked" or "unavailable" sections of the website... basically hacking the site that this save the date card was posted in... no one would have ever known about this supposed potential book of WotC's. But did that stop some of the most entitled whining we've ever freaking heard? Nope! Didn't matter that WotC never announced they were releasing this book! Someone got essentially third-or-fourth-hand information and then they all started screaming "BUT WOTC PROMISED!!!!" And thus WotC was now the Devil and deserved all the hellfire and brimstone coming to them for getting all their hopes up and then their feelings hurt.

And it was right there and then that I realized that we as a community do not deserve a god-damned thing.

That's right. I do not believe we should ever expect WotC to treat us with any sort of helping hand or responsibility, because we do not deserve it. If they make some statement to us and then they change that statement later... that's absolutely 100% fine, because we shouldn't even be catered to by having information given to us early in the first place.

We can't handle that responsibility. I think we should get nothing and like it. And if WotC ever wants to change their statements over time, well then they can go right ahead and we should just sit there and take it. And let the chips fall where they may.

 

[Dire Bare]

Heh heh... I'll be honest here... I remember way back in like 2015 or so, prior to the free 'Elemental Evil' bonus "splat" supplement that WotC released in conjunction with Princes Of The Apocalypse... some rando on the internet went dumpster diving through various websites and on like Amazon(?) or someplace and they found a preliminary holding card for some hardcover splatbook that WotC was in theory going to announce and release at some point. Everyone of course went nutso over this, as people had been clamoring for splatbooks the very next year following 5E14's release, even though WotC continually said they were taking things slow and that no splatbooks were forthcoming.

When this holding card got found and then announced to places like this... that WotC WAS intending on releasing a splatbook because this "save the date" card or whatever was buried within Amazon's(?) system... WotC had to come out and tell people that no, that card was not correct and that no splatbook was forthcoming.

And people LOST THEIR EVER - LOVING - SHHHHHHIIIIIIIIIIIII...

People accused WotC of LYING to them and cancelling this book... despite the fact that no product had EVER been announced by WotC. And in fact if that rando hadn't gone digging into what I remember as being "locked" or "unavailable" sections of the website... basically hacking the site that this save the date card was posted in... no one would have ever known about this supposed potential book of WotC's. But did that stop some of the most entitled whining we've ever freaking heard? Nope! Didn't matter that they never announced they were releasing this book! Someone got essentially third-or-fourth-hand information and thus we all started screaming "BUT WOTC PROMISED!!!!" And thus WotC was the Devil and deserved all the hellfire and brimstone coming to them for getting all their hopes up and then feelings hurt.

And it was right there and then that I realized that we as a community do not deserve a god-damned thing.

That's right. I do not believe we should ever expect WotC to treat us with any sort of helping hand or responsibility, because we do not deserve it. If they make some statement to us and then they change that statement later... that's absolutely 100% fine, because we shouldn't even be catered to by having information given to us early in the first place.

We can't handle that responsibility. I think we should get nothing and like it.

Yeah . . . this is why I get a bit triggered when folks start complaining about WotC breaking promises or commitments . . . the incident you mention was only one of many such incidents.

This is getting too pedantic. They've made a public, clear, written commitment to release an updated SRD "within weeks" of the new Monster Manual. What I said was that if they don't, they will have reneged on that commitment. Will it be the crime of the century? No. Will they have made a public commitment and not honored it? Yes. I guess renege came off as like a really charged word to you, but I really just meant they'd then not be doing the thing they publicly said they were "proud" to be doing.

What they did in 2023 doesn't require an "other than that". That is the recent, lousy history to which I was referring. It was really bad, and it created an atmosphere of suspicion and distrust regarding the SRDs and the OGL. I was very happy with the ultimate outcome (which followed a series of initially tone-deaf messages and statements) of the 5.1 SRD going into Creative Commons, but I very much understand why folks still don't totally trust WotC on this issue.

Yeah, we'll have to agree to disagree. I don't see the statement you linked as a "commitment" but rather a statement of intent. WotC was sharing their plans. Foolishly, perhaps.

Was the OGL Crisis a huge mistake and anti-consumer on WotC's part? Heck yes. But them walking that back, releasing the SRD 5.1 into CC was WHY they also decided to create SRDs for classic editions and release those into CC also. No OGL Crisis, no classic SRDs.

 

[Burnside]

Was the OGL Crisis a huge mistake and anti-consumer on WotC's part? Heck yes. But them walking that back, releasing the SRD 5.1 into CC was WHY they also decided to create SRDs for classic editions and release those into CC also. No OGL Crisis, no classic SRDs.

Fair enough. But also, so far, no classic SRDs are in CC. I'm just not giving them credit for stuff until they actually do stuff.

(Also, full transparency, I personally don't care if the classic SRDs ever go into CC.)

 

[Reynard]

It was not my intent to steer this thread to the old WotC OGL kerfuffle debate. Sorry about that.

As another aside: I wonder if Bastions will make the SRD.

 

[darjr]

It was not my intent to steer this thread to the old WotC OGL kerfuffle debate. Sorry about that.

As another aside: I wonder if Bastions will make the SRD.

Wow! That’s the first time in a long time I’ve even seen it mentioned

 

[bedir than]

That WotC released proper names in the SRD is an unforced error, to be sure.

I think they assumed people would know that listing a name in an SRD doesn't give people the rights to all forms of the character/product. It's just a label, not an allowance to use all art, fiction, etc