D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

[Scott Christian]

This is really where I am at. I am so, so tired of the D&D community being about complaining constantly about things they dislike, so much more than talking about the things they like.

I so rarely even see people talking about the games they're actually playing, I wonder if people ARE actually playing games all that often?

It's a game. You play a game for enjoyment. Why are so many focused on things that make them miserable? And worse, why do so many seem intent on making sure other people are as miserable as they are about games they dislike?

More people than ever are playing.

I would say much of the dislike we see on Reddit and the like are probably not real people. It generates content, and then sees what people like. Click-counting. As for criticism, it is a hobby some people deeply love. Sometimes that boils over into heated debates. I think if you frame all the debates as negative, then you most certainly will see the community as being negative. (Even though a small fraction of the community is represented in forums.) But if you view the criticisms a, well, criticisms, then you start seeing the debates as caring about the game.

 

[Zardnaar]

This is really where I am at. I am so, so tired of the D&D community being about complaining constantly about things they dislike, so much more than talking about the things they like.

I so rarely even see people talking about the games they're actually playing, I wonder if people ARE actually playing games all that often?

It's a game. You play a game for enjoyment. Why are so many focused on things that make them miserable? And worse, why do so many seem intent on making sure other people are as miserable as they are about games they dislike?

Been thinking about a who's actually playing thread.

 

[Zardnaar]

Fair! I won't try to speak for Hussar, but even I don't think that! (I might quibble with the semantics a bit, but that would be really too pedantic!) As long as you agree that some opinions can--and at least in some contexts should--be based on facts and/or reasons, we're good.


This makes me wonder if any of your friends are foodies (or just from New York/New Jersey)! Believe me, if I told my partner--who's both of those things--that Pizza Hut is the best pizza restaurant in NYC, I'd better have some damn good reasons to back that up. (I agree about something's being your favorite, though, but that's because I think it's kind of a special case--unlike our beliefs about a thing's value or quality, our personal attachments tend to be based on quirky, idiosyncratic reasons we don't typically expect others to appreciate and/or share.)

I thought Puzza Hut was amazing first time I had it. But nothing to compare it to except frozen pizza.

Sometimes I think it can be best pizza for price/value. One point here they were doing 12" or 13" sourdough for $5.70 usd give or take. And they were nice. 10" was less than $3 for Basic flavor for a while.

Obviously better pizza available but you're often paying through the nose for it. Double the price or X4. Probably get a bigger pizza though.

I've paid more fir worse pizza than Pizza Hut. Haven't eaten any pizza from fast food or restaurant for a while though due to salt.

 

[AlViking]

Fair! I won't try to speak for Hussar, but even I don't think that! (I might quibble with the semantics a bit, but that would be really too pedantic!) As long as you agree that some opinions can--and at least in some contexts should--be based on facts and/or reasons, we're good.


This makes me wonder if any of your friends are foodies (or just from New York/New Jersey)! Believe me, if I told my partner--who's both of those things--that Pizza Hut is the best pizza restaurant in NYC, I'd better have some damn good reasons to back that up. (I agree about something's being your favorite, though, but that's because I think it's kind of a special case--unlike our beliefs about a thing's value or quality, our personal attachments tend to be based on quirky, idiosyncratic reasons we don't typically expect others to appreciate and/or share.)

To me quality will always be in the eye of the beholder. For example I like my hamburger to be relatively light fair, I'm not a fan of a half pound of ground meat even if it is a mix of chuck, ribeye and brisket as one high end burger place advertises. For me? The highest quality burger is a single Culver's with cheese and grilled onions because that's what I want. That, and their shakes are some of the best in town.

I'm sure a foodie would scoff at than and wax poetic about the "mitmita aioli, a spread made with an Ethiopian spice blend that's both fiery and a little smoky" that you can buy at another restaurant for four times the cost. But to me, more expensive does not make it better or higher quality. The only thing I value is do I enjoy eating the burger and am I reasonably satisfied after eating it. Everything else, including a burger "stuffed with slow-oozing cheese, avocado Dijonnaise and yogurt" is just adding things I don't want.

So that's why I always try to say that I like or prefer something and leave quality out of it unless we're talking about something objective like the quality of editing and consistency.

 

[kayakingpoodle]

To me quality will always be in the eye of the beholder. For example I like my hamburger to be relatively light fair, I'm not a fan of a half pound of ground meat even if it is a mix of chuck, ribeye and brisket as one high end burger place advertises. For me? The highest quality burger is a single Culver's with cheese and grilled onions because that's what I want. That, and their shakes are some of the best in town.

I'm sure a foodie would scoff at than and wax poetic about the "mitmita aioli, a spread made with an Ethiopian spice blend that's both fiery and a little smoky" that you can buy at another restaurant for four times the cost. But to me, more expensive does not make it better or higher quality. The only thing I value is do I enjoy eating the burger and am I reasonably satisfied after eating it. Everything else, including a burger "stuffed with slow-oozing cheese, avocado Dijonnaise and yogurt" is just adding things I don't want.

So that's why I always try to say that I like or prefer something and leave quality out of it unless we're talking about something objective like the quality of editing and consistency.

Quality is easily quantifiable, an individual's level of what is deemed acceptable quality is not as easily quantifiable.

 

[Hussar]

If someone aggressively states an opinion that all opinions must be based in fact…then yeah, it’s gonna invite some challenge to the validity of that argument, using facts. Someone can have an opinion of their favorite restaurant - it has nothing to do with facts, other than perhaps validating that their favorite pizza restaurant actually makes pizza and not something like Thai food.

Again, not what I said.

I said, for the third time now to clarify, that if one's opinions are not based on facts, then they aren't really a great counter for an opinion that IS based on facts.

It certainly wasn't me that claimed that "all opinions must be based in fact". Absolutely not. Would never agree with that. Lots of opinions, particularly personal preferences, aren't based in facts. No problems there. A point I repeatedly stated.

It was Umbran who shifted this whole thing into somehow me claiming that all opinions must be based in facts.

I'm really failing to see why this is getting push back.

 

[ezo]

if one's opinions are not based on facts, then they aren't really a great counter for an opinion that IS based on facts.

I haven't been following the back and forth, but as for this statement... that is your opinion.

An opinion is just an opinion and can be based on anything. Facts, certainly, but also feelings, including preferences, etc.

The fact that one opinion is based on facts and another based on emotions/reactions doesn't make the first any more valid or valuable than the second. At least, not in my opinion.

 

[Zardnaar]

To me quality will always be in the eye of the beholder. For example I like my hamburger to be relatively light fair, I'm not a fan of a half pound of ground meat even if it is a mix of chuck, ribeye and brisket as one high end burger place advertises. For me? The highest quality burger is a single Culver's with cheese and grilled onions because that's what I want. That, and their shakes are some of the best in town.

I'm sure a foodie would scoff at than and wax poetic about the "mitmita aioli, a spread made with an Ethiopian spice blend that's both fiery and a little smoky" that you can buy at another restaurant for four times the cost. But to me, more expensive does not make it better or higher quality. The only thing I value is do I enjoy eating the burger and am I reasonably satisfied after eating it. Everything else, including a burger "stuffed with slow-oozing cheese, avocado Dijonnaise and yogurt" is just adding things I don't want.

So that's why I always try to say that I like or prefer something and leave quality out of it unless we're talking about something objective like the quality of editing and consistency.

Best burger generally is a basic one keeping it kind of simple. Onion, cheese, pickle sauce. Innovations are the bun, meat, sauce and how it's cooked. KISS principle.

Doesn’t mean the only thing you can put in a burger are only that. The best burgers are generally along those lines though.

Same with coke. You can put vanilla or raspberry in it or booze bit the vase is what you like. You can't change the coke itself. It has to meet certain expectations to be coke. Not every variant is good.

You can put Fanta in a coke bottle. You can call it coke, point at the label and claim it's coke. I'm not buying it though if I want coke.

 

[kayakingpoodle]

Best burger generally is a basic one keeping it kind of simple. Onion, cheese, pickle sauce. Innovations are the bun, meat, sauce and how it's cooked. KISS principle.

Doesn’t mean the only thing you can put in a burger are only that. The best burgers are generally along those lines though.

Same with coke. You can put vanilla or raspberry in it or booze bit the vase is what you like. You can't change the coke itself. It has to meet certain expectations to be coke. Not every variant is good.

You can put Fanta in a coke bottle. You can call it coke, point at the label and claim it's coke. I'm not buying it though if I want coke.

Pickles have no place on a hot sandwich!

 

[payn]

Pickles have no place on a hot sandwich!