D&D (2024) Multiclassing: Slots and Prepared Spells

[Mistwell]

Each class has it's own seprate prepared spells restricted by the class level.

Yes. And the rules for WHAT YOU CAN PREPARE is what I am asking about

Wizard 3 can prepared level 2 wizars spells.

You skipped a step. How do you know a Wizard 3 can prepare level 3 wizard spells? By looking at the spell slots chart, not at a separate prepared spells chart. Because there is no separate prepared spells chart. The Wizard says, "The chosen spells must be of a level for which you have spell slots." That's it. That appears to be the rule. So, what spell slots do you use?

You combine the slots as per the multiclass table (except warlock).

Right but do you combine them when determining preparations as well?

 

[Mistwell]

"You determine what spells you can prepare for each class individually, as if you were a single-classed member of that class"

Yes. However, the rule for the single-classed Wizard is, "The chosen spells must be of a level for which you have spell slots." That's the limit that class gives on what spells you can prepare. So what spell slots do you have?

Are you seeing the issue I am having now?

 

[mellored]

How do you know a Wizard 3 can prepare level 2 wizard spells?

By looking at the wizard class as if you where a single class wizard.

"If you are a level 4 Ranger / level 3 Sorcerer, for example, you can prepare five level 1 Ranger spells, and you can prepare six Sorcerer spells of level 1 or 2 (as well as four Sorcerer cantrips)."

The Wizard says, "The chosen spells must be of a level for which you have spell slots." That's it.

There is more.
"Once you have the Spellcasting feature from more than one class, use the rules below."
...

That appears to be the rule. So, what spell slots do you use?

Prepare spells as if you where a single class level 3 wizard.

Right but do you combine them when determining preparations as well?

No.

Prepared spells as if you where a single class first.
Then determine the slots.

 

[Kobold Stew]

Yes. However, the rule for the single-classed Wizard is, "The chosen spells must be of a level for which you have spell slots." That's the limit that class gives on what spells you can prepare. So what spell slots do you have?

Are you seeing the issue I am having now?

But you're not a singe-classed Wizard. p. 44 on multiclassing says the multiclassing rules supercede once you've multiclassed.

 

[mellored]

In 2014 the was a loophole about writing higher spells to a spell book, but it looks like that was fixed for 2024.

"Each of these spells must be of a level for which you have spell slots, as shown in the Wizard Features table."

"you can copy it into your spellbook if it’s of a level you can prepare" (which is as a single class wizard)

 

[Mistwell]

But you're not a singe-classed Wizard. p. 44 on multiclassing says the multiclassing rules supercede once you've multiclassed.

Indeed. And the multiclassing rules say you track preparations based on single-class but spell slots based on combined classes, and yet preparations in single-class are based on spell slots. So do you track spell slots for each single-class when calculating preparations, but multi-class when calculating spell slots outside of preparations?

 

[Mistwell]

By the way for what it is worth I am not trying to game the system here. I think you track spell slots as a single-class for purposes of spell preparations, then you calculate them again as multi-class for purposes of total spell slots. And that's how I'd DM it. But I wanted people's thoughts on how it plays out based on the rules as written, in case the issue comes up.

 

[Kobold Stew]

Indeed. And the multiclassing rules say you track preparations based on single-class but spell slots based on combined classes, and yet preparations in single-class are based on spell slots. So do you track spell slots for each single-class when calculating preparations, but multi-class when calculating spell slots outside of preparations?

I do not believe there is any room for doubt as to what is being said in the PHB.

The example given on p. 44 is of a Ranger 4/Sorc 3. That means you have two third-level slots available, but, as the text makes clear, you only have access to level 2 Sorcerer spells (as a Sorc 3), and level 1 Ranger spells (as a level-4 Ranger).

 

[Mistwell]

I do not believe there is any room for doubt as to what is being said in the PHB.

The example given on p. 44 is of a Ranger 4/Sorc 3. That means you have two third-level slots available, but, as the text makes clear, you only have access to level 2 Sorcerer spells (as a Sorc 3), and level 1 Ranger spells (as a level-4 Ranger).

Right but you couldn't have access to anything else anyway because the Ranger has a specific list, as does the Sorcerer, they differ, so that's the most you could have. In the example I am giving, the wizard can access higher level spells through their spell book and copying higher level spells.

 

[NotAYakk]

The 2024 rules on learning new spells:

Whenever you gain a Wizard level after 1, add two Wizard spells of your choice to your spellbook. Each of these spells must be of a level for which you have spell slots, as shown on the Wizard Features table.

Q1: Does Multiclassing rewrite this to remove "as shown on the Wizard Features table[/b] and replace it with as calculated by the multiclassing rules? Ie, is the "as shown" a clarification, or a restriction?

You prepare the list of level 1+ spells that are available for you to cast with this feature. To do so, choose four spells from your spellbook. The chosen spells must be of a level for which you have spell slots.

Q2: This doesn't mention "as shown on the Wizard Features table".

Ignoring multiclassing, suppose there was a feat or race that gave you a 3rd level spell slot at level 1. A single-classed wizard would be able to prepare 3rd level spells that are in their spellbook; they wouldn't be able to scribe such spells when they gained levels, however.

Copying a Spell into the Book.When you find a level 1+ Wizard spell, you can copy it into your spellbook if it’s of a level you can prepare and if you have time to copy it.

If you had a 3rd level slot as a single-classed wizard, you could copy a 3rd level spell into your book (if you found it), then prepare it.

....

So, then the question is, when you prepare spell as a wizard, do you ignore the fact you have higher level spell slots from multiclassing and pretend your only spell slots are from being a wizard, and from that (fictious state) determine your max spell slot?

One could argue they should say "you can prepare spells up to 1/2 of your wizard level, rounded up" instead of mentioning spell slots; that would solve this problem. They don't, however.

This wording is similar to Sorcerer in 2024:

The number of spells on your list increases as you gain Sorcerer levels, as shown in the Prepared Spells column of the Sorcerer Features table. Whenever that number increases, choose additional Sorcerer spells until the number of spells on your list matches the number in the Sorcerer Features table. The chosen spells must be of a level for which you have spell slots.

And for changing:

Changing Your Prepared Spells. Whenever you gain a Sorcerer level, you can replace one spell on your list with another Sorcerer spell for which you have spell slots.

Which also relies on "have spell slots".

"Up to half your level, round up, and no more than 9th" would solve this, or an entry in the table.

Only the wizard mentions "look at the wizard table" for the source of slots.

...

Ok, balance impact:

A Paladin 2/Sorcerer 10 can prepare 5th level Paladin spells, sooner than a pure Paladin can. I don't really like that.

A sorcerer 10/wizard 10 has access to 9th level spells for both sides.

Are the higher level class features of "pure casters" worth not multiclassing under these rules? Admittedly, multiclassing pure spellcasters was pretty dumb in 5e due to the loss of high level spell options.

But, access to 9th level bard spells by splashing bard 1 also seems sus.