Mannahnin
Scion of Murgen (He/Him)
Oof. I see what you mean. There are still three I really like coming up, but fingers crossed and you have my hopes that you find joys and treasures among the letters and nonfiction.
BrOSR
- Thread starter GreyOne
- Start date
PHATsakk43
Last Authlim of the True Lord of Tyranny
Personally, I think a lot of the BroSR (BrOSR?) thing is a mix of reactionary attitudes and likely some unfortunate realities baked into the pie that probably weren't really addressed whatsoever in the first 40 or so years of the game and have become political (and thus polarizing) because of the groups that are pointing a lot of this stuff out. Particularly the LGBTQ+, women, and non-white gamers that have really embraced TTRPGs since 5E blew up.
I don't think a lot of us cis- white- kids really thought too much about what was in the games from a non cis-, non-het, non-white perspective in the 70s, 80s, and 90s. Hell, the controversial part during the time was supposed links to Satanism, not the hard-not-to-see-now parallels of racism and treatment of indigenous peoples.
Looking back, it starts to seem like there really is more to the 'original sin' narrative regarding a lot of the basis of TTRPGs than just being products of their time and the problematic stuff being more happenstance, reinterpretations of original intent, or simply misguided, but well-meaning work (1E OA fits this last bucket pretty well). You read those key works in Appendix N and you can't help but notice that many were particularly racist. We now know that M.A.R. Barker (Empire of the Petal Throne) was a particularly avowed antisemite and Nazi sympathizer. The quasi-infatuation with Nazi German military stuff that was just the norm in the 1970s wargaming communities that birthed D&D. Fascism, white supremacy, and heteronormative culture doesn't seem to have been overtly built into the games and then the gamers, but there was definitely tacit acceptance of a lot of stuff that probably more intentional than we like to admit.
The BrOSR stuff, at least to me really has a lot less to do with that stuff that is built in but is actually just another pathway for far-right actors to groom and engage with a group of disaffected, mostly white, men. It's an offshoot of the same playbook that came out of Gamergate in the video game space and is really just a part of the wider "manosphere". To provide an historical analogy, the KKK, specifically the large, national group that developed in the 1920s has really little connection to the historic one of Reconstruction. The latter group simply picked up the trappings, expanded the scope of the previous group's ire, and ran with it. I think we see the same thing today.
Basically, the BrOSR folks look for minor grievances in the TTRPG community, especially where it takes a bit of understanding intersectionality or willing self-reflection to work out, says, "these people are trying to inject politics into your game" which creates sympathies, as no one really likes to feel that they were engaging in something to cause pain to a group. The door is opened, and then more and more gets pumped in. I watched this happen personally with my EVE Online corp 10 years ago. It is a very well-honed tactic and it works.
I don't think a lot of us cis- white- kids really thought too much about what was in the games from a non cis-, non-het, non-white perspective in the 70s, 80s, and 90s. Hell, the controversial part during the time was supposed links to Satanism, not the hard-not-to-see-now parallels of racism and treatment of indigenous peoples.
Looking back, it starts to seem like there really is more to the 'original sin' narrative regarding a lot of the basis of TTRPGs than just being products of their time and the problematic stuff being more happenstance, reinterpretations of original intent, or simply misguided, but well-meaning work (1E OA fits this last bucket pretty well). You read those key works in Appendix N and you can't help but notice that many were particularly racist. We now know that M.A.R. Barker (Empire of the Petal Throne) was a particularly avowed antisemite and Nazi sympathizer. The quasi-infatuation with Nazi German military stuff that was just the norm in the 1970s wargaming communities that birthed D&D. Fascism, white supremacy, and heteronormative culture doesn't seem to have been overtly built into the games and then the gamers, but there was definitely tacit acceptance of a lot of stuff that probably more intentional than we like to admit.
The BrOSR stuff, at least to me really has a lot less to do with that stuff that is built in but is actually just another pathway for far-right actors to groom and engage with a group of disaffected, mostly white, men. It's an offshoot of the same playbook that came out of Gamergate in the video game space and is really just a part of the wider "manosphere". To provide an historical analogy, the KKK, specifically the large, national group that developed in the 1920s has really little connection to the historic one of Reconstruction. The latter group simply picked up the trappings, expanded the scope of the previous group's ire, and ran with it. I think we see the same thing today.
Basically, the BrOSR folks look for minor grievances in the TTRPG community, especially where it takes a bit of understanding intersectionality or willing self-reflection to work out, says, "these people are trying to inject politics into your game" which creates sympathies, as no one really likes to feel that they were engaging in something to cause pain to a group. The door is opened, and then more and more gets pumped in. I watched this happen personally with my EVE Online corp 10 years ago. It is a very well-honed tactic and it works.
Jahydin
Hero
Examples?
One of the most creative and considerate people in the community from what I've seen.
PHATsakk43
Last Authlim of the True Lord of Tyranny
Best I can see is he is being "called out" by "real" BrOSR players for usurping or at least claiming be the progenitor of the "three elements of BrOSR play" (according to at least one BrOSR blogger I read through denigrating Questing Beast.)
1:1 Timekeeping
Braunstein campaign play
Rules-As-Written play
From what little drivel I read through in some BrOSR blogs to get that, it seems to me that the D&D part of the "community" is about as important as Disney's Aladdin quotes are to the Proud Boys; just something to have in common other than being fascist bootlickers.
You can Google the Red Room sponsorship article on Rascal News and his statement of taking a non-political stance as a result. He’s also done reviews for Lamentations of the Flame Princess stuff like Blood in the Chocolate which was eventually apologized for by its author for the content. I just find he’s very willing to skirt past or hand wave questionable content in the books he reviews at times and perhaps is afraid of upsetting the apple cart (regardless of what apples are in there, good or bad)
Mod note:
You have carried on with the name calling and accusations long enough.
Rule #1 of this place is "Keep it civil." You are expected to abide by that. We also don't support commentary about real world politics.
So, dial it back, please and thanks.
Jahydin
Hero
Blood and Chocolate, the adventure that won an ENNIE? Ben wasn't the only one that liked that adventure back then...
The Red Room sponsorship did look like a complete fiasco, but I've followed QB long enough to believe what he posted about it:
I thing QB is a pretty good representation of the OSR community and its values, especially when it comes to everyone feeling welcome so long as they treat everyone else like that too.
Imaro
Legend
I also believe his reviews are paid for... so it may be a position of money being more important than principles.
Imaro
Legend
I also think he touches on exactly why even those who don't explicitely support gatekeeping, discrimination, mysogny and so on in the OSR community still make those targeted by those actions feel unwelcome... You aren't taking a stance against something that is exclusionary and so in esence you are supporting it... especially when you choose to hide from or ignore the actions of others that promote these values while promoting and/or praising their products without acknowledging any problematic issues with the author or company.
That’s fine, that’s your take on it. I’m not a fan of statements of neutrality.
