D&D General 1s and 20s: D&D's Narrative Mechanics

[Maxperson]

And yet many don't. Remove the 1 and 20. Return to binary.

If you need more than 20 to succeed, or less than 1 to fail, the narrative should dictate a roll isn't even called for.

Nah. Some groups enjoy a Hail Mary that works sometimes. If it doesn't work for you, great. Don't use it. Saying it should dictate a roll isn't called for, though, is One True Wayism. You're saying they should play your way.

 

[Azzy]

Nah. Some groups enjoy a Hail Mary that works sometimes.

But that's the thing.... It's not going to work because there is no result on the die roll plus any modifiers that results in success. So rolling the dice in such a case is a useless gesture.

 

[Blue]

I think one of the important things to separate out are "narrative mechanics" vs. "critical and fumble mechanics". Because I think a lot of DMs-only (as opposed to GMing other games) conflate the two.

And with that distinction, no I don't feel that D&D has unofficial narrative mechanics in the 1 and 20 at the tables I play at or "in general". But since they are unofficial, in other words homebrew, some tables may definitely play that way. And I can see this, like many other house rules, infecting groups that have player crossover such that it seems ubiquitous among the various groups someone has access to.

 

[Lanefan]

But I'm not andi honestly can't figure out how to make what I'm saying more clear.

The question to me is not what happens on a 1 or a 20 but what happens on, say, a 2 or 19. 1s and 20s IMO should always be something at least a little bit bizarre; and I'll happily expand combat fumbles to include any roll of 1.

Try to jump the DC 5 gap and roll a 1? Good job, you just faceplanted into the far side and (on a confirmed fumble) fell in the hole.

 

[Lanefan]

But that's the thing.... It's not going to work because there is no result on the die roll plus any modifiers that results in success. So rolling the dice in such a case is a useless gesture.

Maybe so, but if they don't know they can't succeed then IMO the roll should happen anyway; and only on a nat. 20 should they realize the task is in fact beyond them.

 

[Maxperson]

But that's the thing.... It's not going to work because there is no result on the die roll plus any modifiers that results in success. So rolling the dice in such a case is a useless gesture.

Except no. If the group plays that way, then there is a result that achieves success. A 20. Telling them they shouldn't play that way is One True Wayism.

 

[Flights of Fancy]

Nah. Some groups enjoy a Hail Mary that works sometimes. If it doesn't work for you, great. Don't use it. Saying it should dictate a roll isn't called for, though, is One True Wayism. You're saying they should play your way.

But that's the thing.... It's not going to work because there is no result on the die roll plus any modifiers that results in success. So rolling the dice in such a case is a useless gesture.

You get it.

Except no. If the group plays that way, then there is a result that achieves success. A 20. Telling them they shouldn't play that way is One True Wayism.

Think what you want. I mean, you do realize the whole 20 always succeeds and 1 always fails only pertains RAW to combat, right? For checks and saves it doesn't.

Maybe so, but if they don't know they can't succeed then IMO the roll should happen anyway; and only on a nat. 20 should they realize the task is in fact beyond them.

Sure, if you want to spend the time doing that. I just narrate "You try and fail" with no roll.

Otherwise, I allow a roll, and someone rolls say an 18 or 19, but I tell them they fail, then that becomes even more disappointing to the player IME because now they know the meta currency of the high roll, but the disappointment of a failure. Seems "anti-fun" to me, anyway.

 

[AnotherGuy]

I do not know if this has been mentioned, but it would be an interesting learning exercise for the table and cool reward to have the players narrate their 1's and 20's.
You can have the table overrule them (GM gets an equal vote too) if they prove to be too silly in their narration, it is a share imagination after all and so their is an implicit responsibility by those at the table not be farcical to the point where it damages the experience of others.
And notably each table has their own line as to what is too much. There is no 1-standard.

I also feel it is a fun thing for the GM to be surprised a little.

 

[Theory of Games]

I do not know if this has been mentioned, but it would be an interesting learning exercise for the table and cool reward to have the players narrate their 1's and 20's.
You can have the table overrule them (GM gets an equal vote too) if they prove to be too silly in their narration, it is a share imagination after all and so their is an implicit responsibility by those at the table not be farcical to the point where it damages the experience of others.
And notably each table has their own line as to what is too much. There is no 1-standard.

I also feel it is a fun thing for the GM to be surprised a little.

THIS is exactly why "1" and "20" should not carry any "additional narrative power". Because some players will purposely come up with "narratives" that abruptly end the scene:

"Rexor cuts off the evil wizard's lips so he can't cast any more spells!

"Umley the Bold slashes off the deathknight's chestplate!"

Or, "1s" will be harmless mistakes that don't create any kind of inconvenience or drama. And I'm not "theorizin" - I've seen this happen in-game more than once. Some players can't be trusted with "fiat", which is why most ttrpgs only give it to GMs.

Sidenote: Does anyone know the first ttrpg to have rules for critical hits and who the designer was?

 

[AnotherGuy]

THIS is exactly why "1" and "20" should not carry any "additional narrative power". Because some players will purposely come up with "narratives" that abruptly end the scene:

None of that is what I was suggesting. This is an unnecessary alarmist reply.
The 1 and 20 is supposed to describe the failure and success not the ending the scene or gaining some sort of mechanic benefit. The rules of the game are still followed, you don't just get to declare decapitation or dismemberment.
The GM will let you know if the monster dies or loses a limb (i.e. roper tentacle) according to the creature's hit points or damage tally inflicted.