WoD renaming, White Wolf returns

[Autumnal]

Elegy may be worth a look for some folks. It’s designed from Ironsworn’s foundations, and like its ancestor, solo-oriented but perfectly capable of group play, too. It takes a great deal of inspiration from. Both Vsmpire lines, but from a lot of other. Sources too, and combines interesting factions with very flexible character creation. It’s fun.

 

[aramis erak]

Wow, next thing you know Jolt Cola and goths will come back too.

Goths went away? (Thinks of 20-something player's very goth little sister, now in high school, still rocking black, black lace, black eyeliner & lipstick, pale base, straight out of the VTM corebook look, except for the fangs)

 

[aramis erak]

WitchCraft looks pretty good, it has loads and loads of neat factions to join, but unfortunately it was canceled before CoD even hit shelves. Dammit.

CJ Carella's Witchcraft was probably killed because it was in direct competition with the publisher's new licenses: BTVS and Angel. Plus, anything for AFMBE is compatible with Witchcraft.

 

[Jd Smith1]

I wasn't much interested in the setting (except maybe Hunter), but the system mechanics hold promise, I believe.

I've often considered a Hunter/Delta Green/Supernatural/Grimm mix with some Tim Powers thrown in, run with the WoD system.

 

[VelvetViolet]

I don't own it, but my impression was that it was basically all factions.

I read it. You have to make up the factions yourself. There’s four broad themes, but these aren’t really factions as such. Certainly nothing like the covenants in Requiem or the associations in WitchCraft.

Clint and Jodi Black, of Pinnacle Entertainment Games fame, are working on a "Fey in LA" urban fantasy setting where you play fey and other supernatural types in 1927 LA. I don't know when it'll be released, but they have a Patreon going for it.

Good for them. If it’s still receiving supplements after 5 years, then I’ll consider buying it. I’ve been burned by too many one offs and cancellations to bother investing in new games ever again.

Is anybody else making a game that takes place in modern times, historical eras, FTL travel, or multiverse shenanigans? CoD had all of those in one book or another. I only really need the modern times setting, but it would be nice to have others for when I get bored.

Elegy may be worth a look for some folks. It’s designed from Ironsworn’s foundations, and like its ancestor, solo-oriented but perfectly capable of group play, too. It takes a great deal of inspiration from. Both Vsmpire lines, but from a lot of other. Sources too, and combines interesting factions with very flexible character creation. It’s fun.

I have nothing against the writer, but I bought it and… The list of inspirations is just White Wolf’s vampire games and nothing else. Everything is a 1:1 ripoff. All the factions are just renamed from Requiem’s covenants. Even the pretentious humpty dumpty jargon is copied.

I don’t want ripoffs. Not ripoffs of White Wolf anyway. If you have to rip somebody, then rip off WitchCraft or another canceled game that could benefit from the marketing.

CJ Carella's Witchcraft was probably killed because it was in direct competition with the publisher's new licenses: BTVS and Angel. Plus, anything for AFMBE is compatible with Witchcraft.

To add insult to injury, Eden didn’t revive it after they lost the Buffy license.

Every game I liked has been canceled for dumb reasons like “nostalgia” or passed its expiry date and turned into a skinsuit. New games get maybe one book and then the creator loses interest. I’m exhausted by this hobby.

Tabletop games used to inspire my imagination two decades ago, but now they just frustrate me. The hobby feels like it hates creativity and just wants to be cargo cults to nostalgia from three or more decades ago, but at the same time hates it own history and turns these franchises into skinsuits that alienate the fans.

White Wolf is a perfect example. The original company realized in the 2000s that the IP had run its course and they couldn’t keep squeezing blood from that stone. They were already making controversial changes that fans were sending them death threats over. So they opted to just do a complete reboot, make a new universe with a fresh start: Chronicles of Darkness. The old fans predictably hated it, but it was able to stay in the top 5 bestselling rpgs on icv2 until the company was dissolved by CCP in 2010. White Wolf was reduced to a shell company, sold to Paradox, and they released V5 that was widely hated for making various retcons.

The company has to keep making new editions that tear the fandom asunder to keep up with the edition treadmill. It’s a no-win situation. This is true for all IPs, as we’ve seen quite commonly in recent years. They’re always destroyed by inescapable creative entropy.

I think the concept of IPs is destroying our art as a whole. In the 90s we had various competitors to White Wolf like Nightlife, Nephilim, Everlasting, WitchCraft, Fireborn, etc. that didn’t feel like ripoffs. Nowadays I can’t find much of anything, and even then it’s too often lazy ripoffs of White Wolf.

Same is true for all other genres. TSR wrote unique scifi settings in the 90s like Kromosome, Star*Drive, Agents of PSI, GeneTech, etc. but nowadays all scifi games feel homogeneous and derivative of a surface level reading of the first Dune novel specifically. Or they’re derivative of Alien/Outland. That’s another popular fad.

It’s really disheartening and it saps my motivation to pursue my own creative pursuits.

 

[Bae'zel]

Goths aren't gone, albeit it comes across more as a fashion, fetish and pop culture swag aesthetic thing now. I honestly don't know if young goths consume any actual goth media (none of the girls at the local Hot Topic didn't know what Interview with the Vampire was) , or listen to any of the many branches of goth music ("huh, what's Sisters of Mercy?").

Now lots of artists ARE making modern goth music, which is awesome.

My hope is that these two phenomena are tied together, but I won't bet on it.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Goths aren't gone, albeit it comes across more as a fashion, fetish and pop culture swag aesthetic thing now. I honestly don't know if young goths consume any actual goth media (none of the girls at the local Hot Topic didn't know what Interview with the Vampire was) , or listen to any of the many branches of goth music ("huh, what's Sisters of Mercy?").

Now lots of artists ARE making modern goth music, which is awesome.

My hope is that these two phenomena are tied together, but I won't bet on it.

I'm not sure how many goths in the 1980s knew much beyond contemporary sources, either. Insisting young people love stuff their parents and grandparents were into is a great way to make something deeply uncool. If they're embracing contemporary stuff with a similar vibe, good on 'em.

 

[Staffan]

Good for them. If it’s still receiving supplements after 5 years, then I’ll consider buying it. I’ve been burned by too many one offs and cancellations to bother investing in new games ever again.

Is anybody else making a game that takes place in modern times, historical eras, FTL travel, or multiverse shenanigans? CoD had all of those in one book or another. I only really need the modern times setting, but it would be nice to have others for when I get bored.

Savage Worlds itself was first published in 2003, so it's been around for 22 years. The latest edition was released in 2018. However, individual settings tend to be limited in scope – quantity over... well, not quality because they're doing good stuff, but depth might be a better word. PEG have released a fair amount of generic or genre-based stuff, such as the various genre companions (Fantasy, Science Fiction, Horror, Superpowers) which expand the system with stuff appropriate for that genre, but settings usually get one or two books (including a plot point campaign for that setting) and then they move on to something else. The one exception is Deadlands, which is getting both its own supplements and multiple campaigns.

Further, this is something done by the Blacks outside of the purview of PEG itself – PEG has reasonably generous conditions for creating Savage Worlds stuff under license. It is possible it will be getting more than the normal two books, but I doubt it.

Same is true for all other genres. TSR wrote unique scifi settings in the 90s like Kromosome, Star*Drive, Agents of PSI, GeneTech, etc. but nowadays all scifi games feel homogeneous and derivative of a surface level reading of the first Dune novel specifically. Or they’re derivative of Alien/Outland. That’s another popular fad.

I did recently back the Han Cluster setting/campaign for SWADE, which seems pretty fresh to me. Sure, there are elements of it you can point at and go "Oh, this reminds me of X", but the thing as a whole feels pretty new and exciting. And ooh, look at that, they just sent out the backer previews of the campaign! I guess I'll have to go check that out now.

 

[VelvetViolet]

However, individual settings tend to be limited in scope – quantity over... well, not quality because they're doing good stuff, but depth might be a better word.

Quantity over depth? Yeah, that seems to describe my situation. I was spoiled by the depth found in 90s and 2000s games like Unisystem, Alternity, Storytelling System, d20 Modern, etc. Nowadays nobody can compare with those. It’s so frustrating.

White Wolf has alienated their fans so many times that you’d think they would’ve splintered and made new IPs multiple times over already. But that pesky sunk cost fallacy…

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Quantity over depth? Yeah, that seems to describe my situation. I was spoiled by the depth found in 90s and 2000s games like Unisystem, Alternity, Storytelling System, d20 Modern, etc. Nowadays nobody can compare with those. It’s so frustrating.

I think that's the product of changed market conditions. I'm not sure you're likely to find anything comparable nowadays aside, perhaps, from some lines that produce a lot of material in PDF form.