D&D (2024) What Should a Psion Be Able To Do?

[CreamCloud0]

I’m tempted to just go through the full 2024 PHB spell list and make note of which spells I would give the base psion and which spells I would say not at base but maybe from a subclass. But that would have to wait until I get home, and at that point it’s going to be really hard to convince myself to do that instead of playing more Claire Obscure.

I started doing this myself last night, but psionics is so broad that I found my list of psionic or subclass-allowable spells growing too large... which lead me here. Psionics are a very broad concept, so it's understable why people have a hard time agreeing or nailing things down.

i made a similar list myself for the 2014 spells, here it is if you're curious

i listed every psionic apropriate spell i could find, i might be err-ing on the side of generous with some of these though, others are more 'they could replicate similar effects with their abilities so this is close enough'

Spoiler: long list

CANTRIPS
blade ward
dancing lights
eldritch blast
encode thoughts
friends
gust
mage hand
message
mind sliver
minor illusion
resistance
shillelagh
thaumaturgy
thunderclap
true strike
vicious mockery
1ST LEVEL
absorb elements
animal friendship
beast bond
catapult
cause fear
charm person
command
compelled duel
detect evil and good
detect magic
disguise self
dissonant whispers
earth tremmor
expeditious retreat
faerie fire
feather fall
find familiar
heroism
id insinuation
jump
longstrider
mage armour
magic missile
magnify gravity
puppet
sense emotion
shield
sleep
thunderwave
2ND LEVEL
alter self
beast sense
calm emotions
crown of madness
detect thoughts
enthrall
gust of wind
hold person
knock
levitate
locate animals or plants
locate object
mental barrier
mind spike
mind thrust
phantasmal force
see invisibility
shatter
suggestion
tasha's mind whip
thought shield
3RD LEVEL
antagonise
catnap
clairvoyance
counterspell
dispel magic
enemies abound
erupting earth
fast friends
fear
feign death
fly
hypnotic pattern
incite greed
intellect fortress
protection from energy
psionic blast
pulse wave
sending
4TH LEVEL
arcane eye
charm monster
compulsion
confusion
dominate beast
ego whip
gravity sinkhole
locate creature
otiluke's resilient sphere
phantasmal killer
raulothim's psychic lance
5TH LEVEL
awaken
bigby's hand
control winds
destructive wave
dominate person
dream
geas
hold monster
modify memory
rary's telepathic bond
scrying
synaptic static
telekinesis
wall of force
6TH LEVEL
contingency
globe of invunerability
gravity fissure
mass suggestion
mental prison
psychic crush
true seeing
7TH LEVEL
forcecage
power word: pain
project image
reverse gravity
whirlwind
8TH LEVEL
antimagic field
antipathy/sympathy
dominate monster
feeblemind
mindblank
power word: stun
telepathy
9TH LEVEL
astral projection
power word: kill
psychic scream
weird

edit: on afterthought i'd add a few lightning damage spells too.
CANTRIP: lightning lure, shocking grasp
1ST LVL: witch bolt
3RD LVL: lightning bolt
6TH LVL: chain lightning

 

[Flights of Fancy]

i made a similar list myself for the 2014 spells, here it is if you're curious

Awesome work! I think others should do the same, but then compare lists afterwards to see what overlaps and what might be different. I might do it this weekend, myself, and if @Charlaquin does as well we could have at least three to compare.

 

[SkidAce]

I don't see those as fundamental psion abilities. I think I agree with @Reynard on this one that your just creating a caster with a different name if you include these. I mean fire and ice are not things of the mind (though I do understand how one could justify them to some extent).

Same mental wavelengths doing the telekinesis vibrating the molecules of things to set them on fire.

Whereas a caster is summoning fire per se...YMMV.

 

[Reynard]

Psionics:
Cannot be dispelled, counterspelled, or subject to antimagic shell, etc.
Should be random to begin, but cultivated later on through training and experience.
Should be limited in scope, but significant in power by the end.
Should allow multiple effects (aka "stacking" concentration") at once.
Should be draining to the psion in a fundamental way (hit points would be best).
Should be capable of doing things magic (barring perhaps wish) can't. (I'll add there should be MANY things magic can do that psionics can't, as well!!!)

Psions develop everything internally. But that makes their powers weak by comparison at first in some ways, but also as long as they have the "mental fortitude" to continue using their power, they can do so. They don't "run out of slots" or anything, except perhaps if you incorporate the draining I mention above. However, once they hit a limit, it should be harsh in my opinion. Their mind and/or body was pushed too hard and now they have to suffer the consequences.

I am not sure how you would balance this in 5E's paradigm. It does not really do the whole "weak early to be powerful later" bit that "balanced" the wizard/m-u in earlier editions.

 

[Theory of Games]

In general terms, probably, but in 5E terms where we seek some degree of class balance somehow, it can't be much more a force of nature than other classes at capstone levels I would think.

There's no class balance in D&D.

We can finally play X-Men with D&D now

 

[SkidAce]

I want to do the things these characters do:

Firestarter (create and control fire, including immunity to fire eventually)

Professor X (telepathy, empathy, I’d prefer mind control be considered inherently monstrous and evil but I know that isn’t gonna happen so it’s in too, illusions by way of forced perception)

Green Lantern (create and use energy constructs)

Nightcrawler (teleport)

Mystique (control and transform one’s own body)

Jedi (all of it)

Plus these abilities:

Healing and harming via biokenesis

Psychometry and clairvoyance

Manipulating energy fields and disrupting “magic”

Communication with spirits

Good list. Lined out the ones that don't "fit" for me.

 

[SkidAce]

My point is, if you let them do everything "psychics" can do in media, they are just wizards. What's the point then?

They 're not doing magic?

/puts on fireproof suit

 

[Charlaquin]

Abjuration seems like a more distinctly appropriate fit than most schools. Hell, I’d put it above scrying.

I mean leave out the healing spells, but IMO they shouldn’t be Abjuration anyway.

But Shield is right beside Catapult on the “5e spells that feel telekenetic” IMO.

That’s a really good point. Abjuration is such a weird spell school, it’s easy to forget what does and doesn’t fall under it. But you’re absolutely right; Shield, Mage Armor, anything that boils down to “kinetic barrier” is absolutely appropriate.

And while I get that pyrokenesis is often along the lines of sorcerer tropes, the sorcerer already utterly fails at the “reverse advancement” angle that should be inherent to the concept, so why should pyrokenesis be different? It’s an extension of telekenesis, as is hydrokenesis and thus “ice powers”. It’s just telekenesis plus energy manipulation, and energy manipulation is right up there with telekenesis and telepathy. If telepaths can mess with radios, they can transfer heat in or out of a substance while moving it about.

I disagree about energy manipulation. I think once you’re manipulating physical phenomena in ways beyond moving objects remotely, it starts to strain credulity for me as a psychic power. For me that even extends to Pyrokenesis, but it gets a pass from me because it’s such a distinct and well-established archetype within media dealing with psychic characters. I’m not inherently opposed to these being things that can be achieved with psionics. But, I don’t think they should be a baseline part of the Psion class, if it’s to have any kind of clear identity. Again, I really don’t think a single class can do the entire spectrum of psychic abilities justice.

 

[SkidAce]

... But that would have to wait until I get home, and at that point it’s going to be really hard to convince myself to do that instead of playing more Claire Obscure.

Agreed.

 

[Charlaquin]

i made a similar list myself for the 2014 spells, here it is if you're curious

Pretty solid list at a skim. There are a few inclusions that I probably wouldn’t have chosen and I assume my own list would probably have a few you wouldn’t have chosen. But, the basic idea is there.