D&D (2024) Psionics: What Do You Want?

[Minigiant]

Most started with 5e.

Some refuse to learn about new content.

And those people don't buy books. And thus WotC doesn't care what they think because they won't buy anything WotC puts out.

And that some is smaller than "Most" or "All".

My point is that the majority of 5e fans are new fans. They aren't used to older editions when TSR and WOTC used to make classes with totally different paradigms and a party and DM were supposed to manage learning several DOZENS of fiddly bits anytime a DM allowed a new book.

This ain't the times when you were overloaded with races, base classes, kits, prestige classes, feats, spells, and variant rules.

I don't know if the community would accept an extra 100 new powers.

It would be cool. But I'm not the type to advocate for something with a high chance of flopping.

Aberrantics I, I III & IV
Astrapathy I, I III & IV
Glamour I, I III & IV
Psychometabolism I, I III & IV
Pschometry I, I III & IV
Psychoportation I, I III & IV
Clairsentience I, I III & IV
Metacreativity I, I III & IV
Metapsionics I, I III & IV
Telekinesis I, I III & IV
Telepathy I, I III & IV

 

[Flights of Fancy]

... I don't think you grasp the point I'm making.

I do. I just don't agree with it. I think you are equating far more to the manner of those mechanics when in reality, it is just the same thing: move and attack. The fact they move differently or attack differently is minor really. It is more important to your view, but not mine.

Which is why I say the Fighter and Barbarian really have nothing besides those, as where the Monk and Rogue DO have extra stuff to make them feel unique.

This one I'll give you, though, since it is the crux of the problem I'm describing.

LOL of course you will, It is what we're both taking issue with.

Your view is fine and dandy?

Um... thanks. shrug

But it doesn't address the issues I'm raising. Just kinda ignores them while vaguely gesturing towards some kind of argument against them.

It isn't addressing them at all. It is addressing your view that martials have the full box of crayons and psw's only have six. Which I wholeheartly disagree with because the box of crayons spellcasters get is there spells--which are far more versatile and such than what martials do: move and attack. This is why I said I think many people, not just myself, would disagree with that point of yours. However, this point is neither here nor there to the real issue--which we do agree on--that psw's only have spells and nothing else and that makes the feeling of uniqueness between them rather hard to come by. All you have is spell selection really.

Personally... I prefer Intelligence. Insight and Investigation are Intelligence rather than Wisdom skills and better fit the idea of a psychic character who can look into someone else's eyes and understand their motivation or their past...

But that's just me.

Did they change Insight to Intelligence in 2024? Because otherwise it has always been Wisdom. Either way, INT or WIS we can agree to disagree on, I just feel WIS at least would make the psion a bit more distinct than Wizard.

There's only 3 stats to choose from. Int, Wis, or Cha, it's going to be "A 'different' Wizard" or "A 'different' Sorcerer" or whatever. I don't think that particular aspect really matters much, in the end.

Fair. Like I just wrote--I don't think it would be a major thing, but at least it would be a difference to help separate psion from wizard.

Cutting the 5e spell list down by a MASSIVE margin would absolutely be my preferred way of making room in the Sorc/Wiz classes for more class features and some kind of specific identity in how they do magic... But it's not an option. WotC makes too much money on selling new spells that people go crazy over.

Sadly true. I hate most of the spells in the game and in my experience at least half of the spells have never seen the light of day in any 5E game I've played in.

 

[Flights of Fancy]

Well!

1) Sorcerers could have distinct casting mechanics from Wizards.
Different spell lists with minimal overlap would be HUGE for creating some light between the two. Giving the Sorcerers a Spell Point system with their 'Sorcery Points' for Metamagic folded into that would go a long, LONG, way to making them feel different. Give them spell point per round expenditure limits, recovery mechanics for some portion of their spell points at the end of short rests, etc.

Maybe give them the ability to specifically burn their Hit Dice to recover Spell Points to represent them using their very body as fuel for their magic. Hell, give them the ability to do that as a bonus action when they're out of spell points but they also take damage equal to the spell points gained.

Since they're all so charming, build in some charm/distraction/social mechanics into the class that allow them to manipulate people in a pseudo-magical way.

2) Wizards could be built around Knowing Things.
Not just the "Scholar" function granting extra skill proficiency. But build up some Wizard-Specific DCs to recognize NPC vulnerabilities due to their various studies. How about a mechanic which allows them to mark a specific target for the rest of the party to gain some bonus to attacking or rolling saves or whatever else exists against that ONE GUY. And it's based on a Relevant Knowledge Check with a DC of 10+Proficiency+Cha mod of the target or something similar. Or 10+Deception Mod or something.

Give 'em some abilities related to finding information on characters, quests, and objects through Research or finding weird Academics, Philosophers, or even Conspiracy Theorists to ask them for information.

3) Psions could be built around Vibes and Dice.
Ever heard of Psychometry? It's Object Reading. Make that a class ability for them to touch some ritual dagger and know exactly who it has been used on. Or talk to the "Ghosts" that hang out around people like some Spiritualist doing seances. Allow them to use Insight instead of Investigation to represent them "Feeling what has happened, here" to add to that identity.

Give them dice they roll as part of their casting mechanic either to try and preserve their power or boost it with direct modifiers that get lost or kept after use, depending on the roll. Or structure their powers as Cantrips and give them spell points they can spend to boost those cantrips in various ways like increasing the damage from 1d8 to 3d8 to make the cantrip deal as much damage as a 1st level spell if they spend the number of points required to do so. You could make -all- their casting "Buffed Cantrips" that way and free up lots of space for other aspects of the character class.

Frankly, there's a TON of really great options, out there, to make them all feel different, even if they're just moving and casting a spell.

We agree spell lists are a major issue for psw's. In our games Sorcerer's are CON-based casters, and allowing them to burn HD to regain spell points or sorcery points (and I agree make them ONE spell point pool!) is an idea we've explored. We've also had homebrew features like "Magic In All Things" which allowed them to syphon points from magical items--temporarily or permanently draining the items.

Wizards should be "Intelligence Incarnate" in my opinion. So yes knowledge, deduction, planning could all help them.

Psions can have insight stuff, sure.

But beyond spell lists, how they cast spells aren't that imporant to me and don't create as much a sense of uniqueness as it seems it would for you.

 

[GMMichael]

For those that are not happy with the "psionicist as spellcaster" paradigm, what is it that you actually want to see? Why?

A good psionicist could answer this just by reading my mind.

And as a secondary consideration: is it just psionics that you want to be different? How would you feel if sorcery, miracles and spell singing were also completely different than "spellcasting"?

The more spellcasting systems the merrier, provided they don't slow the game down or make it harder for the GM.