D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

[Enrahim]

And at the same time, if I started gaming with Daggerheart or a PbtA game and went into D&D, it would be nice to know that I should have the players roll for things they wouldn't have to in those other games.

I choked at this. There are absolutely nothing I have seen calling for this play style in D&D. I recognise this style might be common, but I have never experienced it as a DM or a player.

 

[Eric V]

Define "bad GM," then. And are you going to say boring or incompetent GMs and malicious GMs are both the same type of bad?

Perhaps not the same type of bad...but they're all bad in their own way.

 

[AlViking]

Again, that's not how bell curves work.

I'm not going to quibble about average vs median but approximately half of DMs are not bad in my opinion (assuming there was an objective number we could assign which we can't do). Being below average just means that they are slightly worse than all of those average or above DMs. Chuck is not bad because I prefer Sue as a DM.

But, yes, below average is bad by definition. The fact that you have your own definition that you're working from comes as zero surprise given the rest of this thread.

As I said, we have very different definitions of bad. Show me any dictionary definition, any widely accepted definition anywhere that matches your definition. I believe we had this discussion before you are not the ultimate deciding authority on what a word means. Insisting that you are doesn't add anything to your argument.

 

[AlViking]

No, not back to blaming players. I never stopped blaming them. At least as often as DMs. Why would bad players get a pass?

Look, you can't have it both ways. If DMs can be bad, and you appear to think they are often, then so can players. I think bad players are a bigger problem, but I'm sure you disagree. Or, correct me if I'm wrong there. Do you think bad players are a bigger problem than bad DMs are like I do?

I agree but in groups I've been involved with the bad player is easier to deal with because they stop getting invited to the game.

 

[AlViking]

...
Everyone reading this. Have you ever considered yourself to be a bad DM at any point in your DMing career?

I wasn't a great DM when I first started, but none of us were. Meanwhile we all had fun, no one was abusive or controlling so I don't think we were bad. We were just inexperienced and learning which is different.

 

[AlViking]

I guess because some people here think fewer than 3 out of every 100 DMs are bad...if one can't see they might be bad, they are less likely to try to improve.

So if we don't agree with you we're bad DMs? Not exactly the most convincing argument in the world.

 

[AlViking]

I was awful for years. It took a lot of feedback from strangers and friends a like. I committed every "bad DM" sin from those list videos on youtube. I've railroaded, overstepped social bounds, been adversarial, and so on. I could write a 1000 word essay about how bad I was. I could cite which campaign I learned which lessons in. It took years of feedback and reflection and progress was slow.

To be honest, I still think I'm pretty bad, now seven years in. Seven years of asking for feedback after every session. I still make pacing mistakes, break tone, and push combat a bit too much. I still struggle to pull together story lines throughout a campaign for a good conclusion. I still sometimes dont reward players in satisfying ways. I'm awful at narrating combat, often offloading it to the players. The areas for improvement are many.

Yet people continue to play with me. Strangers even. Almost all of them, actually, stick it out and play to the end. Because no one expects perfection. Most are just happy to play.

My advice to any DMs, especially new ones. Ask for feedback often and have humility and grace. And never stop trying to be better. DMing is hard.

I really, really hope that no new DM reads the attitude that "If you aren't above average you're bad" to heart. Because I can't imagine how anyone would want to start DMing, would want to acknowledge that they can always improve if they're automatically labeled "bad". Nobody starts out DMing as an amazing DM. The important thing is to accept feedback, pay attention to what your players enjoy (they may or may not tell you) and don't stress out about it too much. We all make mistakes, we all have small ways in which we could improve, all of us will inevitably hit a ceiling of how proficient we are at certain skills.

I'm reminded of an analysis of a recent James Bond movie, where the analyst said that yes what Bond did was within the realm of what people can do. On the other hand there is no individual alive who could do all of those things as well as he does. I will never be as good at voices as a professional voice actor, it doesn't mean I shouldn't try. I will never have the incredible depth and detail that Matt Mercer has for Exandria, but I can still do my best to create a believable and coherent home brew world. I will never create the amazing dioramas people post on this forum now and then but that's one I'm just going to have to give a pass on, even if people do praise the minis I paint. There will always be someone better at some aspect of your DMing so don't let anyone ever tell you you're a bad DM because you aren't as good at some aspect as someone else.

Are people at the table having fun? You're doing okay because that's all that really matters.

 

[Eric V]

So if we don't agree with you we're bad DMs? Not exactly the most convincing argument in the world.

What the hell are you talking about? Agree with me re: what? Did I set that binary you mention?

 

[Eric V]

I wasn't a great DM when I first started, but none of us were. Meanwhile we all had fun, no one was abusive or controlling so I don't think we were bad. We were just inexperienced and learning which is different.

Maybe "bad" means something other than "abusive or controlling."

 

[AlViking]

What the hell are you talking about? Agree with me re: what? Did I set that binary you mention?

Technically you included "might" but the implication is pretty clear.

I guess because some people here think fewer than 3 out of every 100 DMs are bad...if one can't see they might be bad, they are less likely to try to improve.