D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

[Eric V]

Bad can be very subjective.

When do you ever find another game that's exactly the same in all but one way?

It's a thought construct designed to help see if one's behaviour needs to change or not. If you can't see that, there's nothing for us to talk about.

 

[Umbran]

I guess because some people here think fewer than 3 out of every 100 DMs are bad...

Given that "bad" is a subjective human assessment, and that we therefore don't all share the same idea of who should be called, "bad," then what percentage of GMs "are bad" is not a thing. There is only what percentage some specific person or people would call bad.

if one can't see they might be bad, they are less likely to try to improve.

The threat of being called "bad" by someone on the internet is not a particularly powerful or reliable training tool.

 

[Eric V]

Given that "bad" is a subjective human assessment, and that we therefore don't all share the same idea of who should be called, "bad," then what percentage of GMs "are bad" is not a thing. There is only what percentage some specific person or people would call bad.



The threat of being called "bad" by someone on the internet is not a particularly powerful or reliable training tool.

So just using the examples provided before, I guess being boring isn't bad; rejoicing in unfair TPKs isn't bad; having orcs r**e the PCs isn't bad...

Whatever, man.

 

[Umbran]

It's not that subjective.

Yeah, it is. I mean, assuming we are considering behaviors that are actually about how a game is run, and not about personal hygiene, committing felonies, personal assault or harassment, or the like.

If the DM engages in behaviour that would drive a player to another game that is exactly the same except it doesn't have said behaviour, then it's bad.

Not really. Then it is behavior that one player does not like. Other players may not mind it, or may even like it.

This can be seen by how many threads discussing playstyles have moments of, "In my playstyle, we do X, and the players like it," get responses of, "Well, if my GM did X, I'd leave the table and never come back."

 

[kermit4karate]

It's a thought construct designed to help see if one's behaviour needs to change or not. If you can't see that, there's nothing for us to talk about.

I see people playing the same word games, taking each other's comments out of context in an argument, debating semantics, being driven by ideology more than data -- things people do when they have a gut feeling about something unprovable and refuse to concede that someone else heard them but still maintains a different position.

Basically, standard human stuff.

So just using the examples provided before, I guess being boring isn't bad; rejoicing in unfair TPKs isn't bad; having orcs r**e the PCs isn't bad...

Whatever, man.

You lost me conflating "boring" and the orcish SVU.

 

[Eric V]

I see people playing the same word games, taking each other's comments out of context in an argument, debating semantics, being driven by ideology more than data -- things people do when they have a gut feeling about something unprovable and refuse to concede that someone else heard them but still maintains a different position.

Basically, standard human stuff.

You lost me conflating "boring" and the orcish SVU.

You're seeing a lot of crap that's not there, when I'm offering a simple way to measure.

There are different measures of "bad"...there's no conflating.

But no...everything's subjective, less than 3% of DMs are bad, bad players are worse than bad DMs somehow...whatever. I am going to ask politely to stop responding to me.

 

[AlViking]

You're seeing a lot of crap that's not there, when I'm offering a simple way to measure.

There are different measures of "bad"...there's no conflating.

But no...everything's subjective, less than 3% of DMs are bad, bad players are worse than bad DMs somehow...whatever. I am going to ask politely to stop responding to me.

Can we then politely ask that you not conflate your opinion of what bad means with an objective standard? Because that's what most of this is about - any judgement about whether a DM is "bad" typically comes down to personal preferences and judgement. One person may think a DM is bad another person at the table may think they're great and they can both be right ... for them.

There are some extreme cases of course but most DMs that fall into that category don't DM for long unless they change what they're doing.

 

[Eric V]

Can we then politely ask that you not conflate your opinion of what bad means with an objective standard? Because that's what most of this is about - any judgement about whether a DM is "bad" typically comes down to personal preferences and judgement. One person may think a DM is bad another person at the table may think they're great and they can both be right ... for them.

There are some extreme cases of course but most DMs that fall into that category don't DM for long unless they change what they're doing.

Sure, there are people who prefer boring games, who prefer TPKs, who prefer Orcs SAing PCs...

Whatever, sure.

 

[kermit4karate]

There are some extreme cases of course but most DMs that fall into that category don't DM for long unless they change what they're doing.

1 out of 4 DMs are boring sociopaths with orc fetishes.

I don't see how anyone could possibly disagree with that.

 

[AlViking]

Sure, there are people who prefer boring games, who prefer TPKs, who prefer Orcs SAing PCs...

Whatever, sure.

Whether or not a game is boring is subjective. Some people thrive on high risk campaigns even those that include tropes I would personally never touch with a 10 foot pole (and any DM that does use them should okay it with every member of the group, asked in private) are part of the excitement. I don't judge what other people want out of their games.

If I look at Critical Role, I don't see some exemplar of a good game. I see a game that the people playing enjoy, Matt obviously has a style many people would find excellent. But for some people who want a game dominated by hack and slash without all of the shopping trips and constant yacking? He's a bad DM.