D&D General The rapier in D&D

[Umbran]

A T-Rex is just a giant chicken. Unlike what Jurassic park would have you believe, they are just animals. Meanwhile our ancestors did hunt things like wooly mammoths which were about as massive.

A wooly mammoth clocked in at around 4.5 to 6 tons, while modern estimates for average T-rex is between 5 and 8 tons. So, the T-rex was probably a bit bigger.

Obviously no human has ever fought a T-Rex, but we are quite efficient at killing pretty much every animal we've ever encountered. I see no reason a T-Rex would be any different.

Note that no single human likely won out against a healthy adult mammoth either. Mammoths were hunted by larger groups of humans who planned and equipped specifically for that activity.

To specifically return to the original point about stone age weapons and killing megafauna - the most likely weapon-based way to kill mammoths was with grounded pikes, which you drive the animal onto, rather than by any weapons held in human hands. And that's fine if it is hunting season, and you and two dozen of your closest friends have spent a couple days along the migration route of the animals preparing a site.

But, if the animal comes along a foursome of folks with pointy sticks wandering through the woods? You probably aren't winning that fight. If the animal can also fly and breathe fire or somesuch... there's a reason why they are in a fantasy game, y'all.

 

[AlViking]

A wooly mammoth clocked in at around 4.5 to 6 tons, while modern estimates for average T-rex is between 5 and 8 tons. So, the T-rex was probably a bit bigger.



Note that no single human likely won out against a healthy adult mammoth either. Mammoths were hunted by larger groups of humans who planned and equipped specifically for that activity.

To specifically return to the original point about stone age weapons and killing megafauna - the most likely weapon-based way to kill mammoths was with grounded pikes, which you drive the animal onto, rather than by any weapons held in human hands. And that's fine if it is hunting season, and you and two dozen of your closest friends have spent a couple days along the migration route of the animals preparing a site.

But, if the animal comes along a foursome of folks with pointy sticks wandering through the woods? You probably aren't winning that fight. If the animal can also fly and breathe fire or somesuch... there's a reason why they are in a fantasy game, y'all.

I was just responding to the theory that any human not armed with a howitzer would stand no chance against megafauna - whether that's a T-Rex or a dragon. Jurassic Park has given us the impression that the dinosaur could just ignore fully automatic assault rifle damage from close range and not even notice it which is far from true. Meanwhile how powerful a dragon is varies from good ol' St George where it looks to be not much bigger than a large dog to world-ending monsters that cannot be stopped.

We know that in D&D a dragon can be killed by weapons because characters have been killing dragons in D&D for half a century.

 

[pawsplay]

I definitely feel like the swashbuckling pirate, upon encountering the dragon, should feel a little under-dressed and under-armed. Maybe stick with the musket pistol during that encounter, if you can get someone to play forward.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

With a jaw that can crush bone. And a sense of smell that can track for miles.

Despite some modern paleo art impressions of T-REx as giant Chickadees, Carnosaurs were big predators and there's some evidence that T-Rex hunted in PACKS.

Giant, SCARY chickens.

Birds are scary.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I definitely feel like the swashbuckling pirate, upon encountering the dragon, should feel a little under-dressed and under-armed. Maybe stick with the musket pistol during that encounter, if you can get someone to play forward.

In a genre where people regularly jump onto dragons and stab them with daggers, you think the heroic swashbuckler will be afraid to do the same with a yard or more of steel? Really??

 

[Chaltab]

You know, I imagine dragon hearts must be immensely powerful to pump all that blood around such a large powerful body. I'd imagine even breaking a capillary results in a torrent. Fighting dragons isn't about hitting their vitals, it's about bleeding them until they don't have any fight left in them.

 

[Steampunkette]

Actually it says "espada ropera" which is the linguistic root I noted above, literally means "sword for dressing," and in that era would have referred to a sidesword (spada de lato, in the Italian parlance). That was a transitional weapon that was used in early modern fencing; the rapier derived from then-current fencing techniques, not the reverse.

So, no. The rapier was not invented in the 1400s. I know more about later transitional swords, including "rapiers" with a full edge. I am confessedly not an expert on early transitional swords; I learned a lot while I was playtesting GURPS Martial Arts: The Bolognese School. But I do know that.

Rapier in 15th Century German Style - German - The Metropolitan Museum of Art

Gille, Florent A., and Alois Gustav Rockstuhl. <i>Musée De Tzarskoé-Sélo, ou, Collection d'Armes du sa Majesté l'Empereur de Toutes les Russies</i>. St. Petersburg and Carlsruhe: Velten, 1835–1853

www.metmuseum.org

A rapier made in Solingen Germany in the 18th century in the, quote, 15th Century German Style.

Meaning 1400s. Meaning they had rapiers in Germany in the 1400s.

You can quibble over "Full edge" versus false edge versus point only all you want, but it's a recognized thing in Academia that there were rapiers in the 1400s.

 

[pawsplay]

Rapier in 15th Century German Style - German - The Metropolitan Museum of Art

Gille, Florent A., and Alois Gustav Rockstuhl. <i>Musée De Tzarskoé-Sélo, ou, Collection d'Armes du sa Majesté l'Empereur de Toutes les Russies</i>. St. Petersburg and Carlsruhe: Velten, 1835–1853

www.metmuseum.org

View attachment 417432

A rapier made in Solingen Germany in the 18th century in the, quote, 15th Century German Style.

Meaning 1400s. Meaning they had rapiers in Germany in the 1400s.

You can quibble over "Full edge" versus false edge versus point only all you want, but it's a recognized thing in Academia that there were rapiers in the 1400s.

That's just the title. The entry reads

Title: Rapier in 15th Century German Style

Date: probably 18th–19th century

This is not a 16th century weapon.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Rapier in 15th Century German Style - German - The Metropolitan Museum of Art

Gille, Florent A., and Alois Gustav Rockstuhl. <i>Musée De Tzarskoé-Sélo, ou, Collection d'Armes du sa Majesté l'Empereur de Toutes les Russies</i>. St. Petersburg and Carlsruhe: Velten, 1835–1853

www.metmuseum.org

View attachment 417432

A rapier made in Solingen Germany in the 18th century in the, quote, 15th Century German Style.

Meaning 1400s. Meaning they had rapiers in Germany in the 1400s.

You can quibble over "Full edge" versus false edge versus point only all you want, but it's a recognized thing in Academia that there were rapiers in the 1400s.

Quoting to highlight.

There can’t be a sword made in the style of 15th century German rapiers if the person making it didn’t believe that Germany had rapiers in the 1400’s.

It’s wild to see anyone arguing against the existence of rapiers in the 15th century.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Like the rapier was literally given its name in the mid 1400’s.