D&D General Weapons should break left and right

[loverdrive]

Another approach to ammunition might be to have special busted arrows of limited quantity.

So you don't need to count every boring arrow, but will count arrows of devastating damage or something.

 

[GreyLord]

One of the few movies I remember showing spears as effective weapons was Troy, see below. Other scenes show spears being the main weapon of the armies, although of course they just run at each other in a loose group instead of having any battle tactics and formation but that's movie battles for you.

In any case start at about 1:30 for the actual fight.

I think I like this one better

 

[Not a Decepticon]

Like I said how special do you think the circumstances are?

In any case, when you say the GM should inform the players beforehand, before when exactly? I'm a little confused here.

Once pcs are in situation where snything impedes on their abilities, including stuff they should be good at like tracking and refilling arrow count, Gm should say so to let the players know and adjust. A "wood is rare in desertso you cannot as easily make arrows, I will be requiring regular skill checks for you to refill your quiver" is enough.

 

[GrimCo]

Just reminder, Efficient Quiver is uncommon magic item. Endless quiver is rare (but it produces +1 ammunition). And in some campaign settings (i'm looking at you Forgotten Realms and Eberron), magic items, specially uncommon ones, are pretty easy to get.

 

[Lanefan]

I have never seen a situation where running out of ammo did not result in annoyed player and an argument taking everyone out of the story. And it is hard not to take the player's side because while THEY may forget to track their arrows, the character they're playing would never do that and it directly ruins their whole fantasy by making their hero look incompetent as punishment for what, not wanting to do bookkeeping on your game time? This line of thinking leads to why D&D 3.5 felt more like doing taxes than playing.

So in effect you'd rather the characters have unlimited ammo? 'Cause that's the only other option here; and not only is it unrealistic in the in-game sense, IMO it's borderline cheating in the meta sense.

Chess and D&D are two very different game. So is D&D and Talisman, D&D and Unfanthomable, D&D and Stationfall, D&D and Monopoly or D&D and Magic: the Gathering. And adding a mechanic whose purpose is to directly make player's life more annoying and boring, without being a challenge to the character, as my friend put it, belongs in wargame, not an role-playing game

Just about every single card in M:tG seems to be designed to make the player's life more annoying.

Game rules and restrictions are what they are, regardless whether they're purely meta (e.g. Monopoly rules) or are trying to reflect an imagined reality (e.g. an RPG). Ammo tracking rules in D&D are the same as travelling rules in basketball - you've got a referee whose job it is to enforce said rules and if that referee doesn't reliably do that job the game is all the worse for it.

That, and I view D&D as more war than sport to begin with.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Once pcs are in situation where snything impedes on their abilities, including stuff they should be good at like tracking and refilling arrow count, Gm should say so to let the players know and adjust. A "wood is rare in desertso you cannot as easily make arrows, I will be requiring regular skill checks for you to refill your quiver" is enough.

Why should the GM call that out before the players ask about it?

 

[cbwjm]

I think for a lot of games, it isn't really worth tracking ammo. These are the games where the PCs are able to return to town frequently and restock. For games where you are deep in the underdark, or lost in the desert, etc., then maybe I'd find tracking ammo worthwhile.

I've definitely ran games where not tracking ammo would have been exactly the same as tracking ammo. I think instead, best to just track special ammo, so if you have a half dozen fire arrows, track those; basic arrows, I just don't care.

 

[Lanefan]

My character is an elite archer not a dopey 21st century geek.

Making arrows is like - not at all difficult.

Assuming you can find something sharp to tip/weight them with; never mind field-made arrows aren't likely to be as effective as those made by a trained fletcher.

 

[Lanefan]

Quite. If the scenario creates a specific resource issue like being lost in the desert, then resource tracking matters. But if you are in a normal situation there is no need.

I'm not that concerned if they're in a situation where resupply is relatively easy; I just get them to dock a bit of cash and carry on.

But inability to resupply often comes up more often and more quickly than you might think. A typical dungeon doesn't provide much by way of fletching materials thus managing the supply of arrows (and worse, crossbow bolts!) becomes a very necessary task. Looting fallen foes of any ammo they might have becomes vital.

This is what makes sling so useful - it's very rare that you can't find abundant ammo for it.

You're right, though, in that oftentimes these things don't matter.......until the situation arises when they suddenly do matter and the players need to know exactly what their PCs have on hand. If things are well-tracked as SOP this isn't an issue; they have what they have, no arguments, carry on. But if they're not well-tracked and it suddenly becomes an issue you're now open to all sorts of needless arguments.

Happened in my game a while back. 6th-7th-ish level party are in a typical dungeon, they enter an area and their magic stops functioning - which includes all their light sources. At the time they didn't have anyone who could see in the dark indoors (I use 1e-style night vision rules) so what followed was a frantic flurry of character sheet flipping as they searched for torches.

There wasn't a single torch or lantern in the party! They had become so reliant on magical light sources they'd all failed to bring mundane lights along; all they had for light were three tallow candles someone had stuffed in their pack, and those didn't last long.

Needless to say, next time they were in town there was a run on torches and lanterns!

The characters know how to live in their natural environment without input from the players.

Some do. Others maybe not so much, depending on the specific character(s). Can't make a blanket statement like this.

 

[Lanefan]

"My character, who is a Ranger and spent whole life hunting witha bow, would be competent enought to ensure they have enough arrows even if I, regular modern person playing them, did not think of specifying it."

Fair enough.

Not all parties pack a Ranger with them, however; and "My character, who is a brigade archer trained by the Queen's Army, has for years been conditioned that his daily ration of arrows comes from the quartermaster's supply; he knows far better than most people how to shoot them but doesn't know how to make them" is every bit as valid.

And dismissing this argument either means players are told they cannot play a character smarter than them or start annoyingly specify minutia like declaring they check for traps every step they take.

"Every step they take" is hyperbolic overkill, but if they don't in general specify they're searching for traps the default is that they are not.