I don't see that in the same vein as the ones I linked though, it's still mostly 5e generic but + stuff right? The 4 I linked are doing fundamentally different rules due to the specific setting and vibe they want to evoke (eg: The One Ring's classes not really having magic) as per OP.
D&D General 5e System Redesign through New Classes and Setting. A Thought Experiment.
- Thread starter Steampunkette
- Start date
I don't see that in the same vein as the ones I linked though, it's still mostly 5e generic but + stuff right? The 4 I linked are doing fundamentally different rules due to the specific setting and vibe they want to evoke (eg: The One Ring's classes not really having magic) as per OP.
Micah Sweet
Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
I suppose you're right, but you could easily create a subsection of the A5e rules with its own setting and optional rules, like A5e's Voidrunner's Codex for sci-fi play.
Sure, I was just pointing out specific examples of intentional design attempts to do exactly what the OP was positing that exist.
The idea is to take some of the lessons from 4e's encounter pacing and bring it to 5e. Because 5e is designed for 6-7 encounters per day, but Mearls and the rest of the team dropped the ball on pacing out abilities.
So players just dump all their most powerful abilities in round 1 to try and end fights way more quickly than is intended, which trivializes the game in a lot of ways and winds up with the "I need a long rest" right before the BBEG encounter.
He talked about it on Blue Sky and you can read about it here: D&D 5E (2024) - Mike Mearls explains why your boss monsters die too easily
Players are supposed to deal with 20 rounds of combat and typically handle 5 before taking a long rest. He does say "You can just give your bosses way more HP" but also acknowledges that it both breaks the CR structure and introduces the fatal flaw that you're -expected- to get a long rest before every boss fight so you can alpha strike and then have a reasonable duration encounter beyond the alpha.
By shifting something like, say, exertion from A5e to recover at the end of an Encounter, rather than a Short Rest, and reducing the total amount of exertion you have access to at a time, you can help to offset the nova problem. And then apply similar, but not identical, limits to each power source, you can better balance the game.
So, like, maybe Occult characters get 2 spells per encounter rather than short rest, but their spells hit a smaller area and weaken the target so other people hit them harder, and their invocations provide a boost to their at-wills so they get a similar total throughput bonus spread differently. Martial characters get 4 exertion per encounter for their combat maneuvers, and Psychics get 4 Psi Dice, but both Martials and Psychics get to spend up to 2 exertion or 2 psi dice on their encounter powers to boost their effectiveness. Arcane characters get 3 spells per encounter but their spells deal low damage in a bigger area. Divines get 2 Spells and a Channel Divinity that all apply some healing. Natures get 3 spells which always have a slight healing and control component.
And all of these things are independent of role.
Things like that.
GobHag
Adventurer
Honstly I think you're getting a bit stuck on the flavour deciding the format of the classes themselves. There's no need to be so strict with power sources like that, make it more of a trend that Divine classes gets good(and the Cleric having the best) healing, but if Swordmage is a single target, teleporting nuker then the Swordmage gets barely any AoE and a ridiculously powerful nuking.
Swordmage is listed as a tank sooo... probably no nuking, but a need for battlefield control.
Though I should note: When I say AoE with lower damage that would, absolutely, be impacted by role.
So if Arcane hits a bigger area, it hits a bigger area in any role. Blaster Arcane would have the biggest AoE. Arcane Sniper would hit multiple targets in a small area from long ranges. Etc.
payn
Glory to Marik
Imma take a stab at this. Im gonna go for my pet project of social pillar focus. Im picturing something of political intrigue of courtly drama. Kings and knights and holypersons and jesters etc.. For funsies ill use Latin words for descriptions to give it some identity thats similar to known class concepts, but not entirely familiar. I'll call the setting "Terra Intrigarum" for land of intrigue.
To hit the three quoted targets im thinking of hybridizing classes in a way that Paizo did with PF1. Id also put a lot of effort into backgrounds and the skill system expanding it out form the basics of 5E.
Nobilis
The noble class of Terra Intrigarum (TI) a mixing of the monk and bard to represent the understanding of martial experience tempered with courtly customs.
This may seem like an odd pairing, but thats kind of why I like it. Nobles are often born in isolated circles and forced to learn skills of sophistry. Their martial skills are less those of heavily armored combatants and more improvised caught of guard environments. The bard aspects lead into the idea of social connection and protecting ones mind from probing inquiries. Nobilis are the heart of the realm, the decision makers, but also entrusted keepers of the peace. They are often targets of kidnappings and assassination attempts as their high station grants them such risks.
Eques
The knight class of TI mixing fighter and paladin to create capable defenders of honor and masters of the battlefield.
This is a lead into King Arthur romantic idea of knights as defenders of court and leaders of the battlefield. Unlike nobles, the knights of TI learn proficiency in heavy armor and weaponry as well as court customs of officers of the realm. Eques would be the open face of defense and honor (think perhaps samurai compared to ninjas). Their office is earned through dedication and well known across the court and beyond. Eques are expected to champion the nobles and their peoples with their lives if necessary.
Prices
The holy bound class of TI mixing cleric and druid to represent spiritual leaders of the Earth and beyond.
Prices are the spiritual leaders with insight into the Gods and their seemingly unknowable ways. Holy persons of TI are expected to be protect the spirit of the realm and its peoples through knowledge and skill granted through their devotion and will. During times of unrest and uncertainty, people of TI look to Prices for answers to the unknown, and are often held responsible for ill omens and occurrences but also celebrated during times of bounty and good fortune.
Spiones
The shadowy agents class in TI a mixing of rogue and bard to obfuscate and discover agendas and have an unseen hand in carrying them out.
Spiones often hold no rank or have public facing station (though that depends largely on the realm they serve). Often times disguised as distant noble cousins or lower officers of the realm, spiones work the edges of the court always looking for intrusive agendas or to carry out unsavory agendas of their masters. People of the realm often have no knowledge of who these unsung heroes (or devils) are amongst the court and people of the realm.
Veneficus
Practitioners of magical arts class in TI the mixing of wizard and warlock classes to represent arcane knowledge and mastery.
Venficus are masters of the arcane arts. They are responsible for protecting the realm from outside forces, as well as being responsible gatekeepers of arcane knowledge within the realm. When their services prove fruitful the people look upon them with wodner. In times of strife they are often looked upon with doubt or suspicion.
Externus
Those who dwell outside of civilized holdings class in TI a mixing of the ranger and barbarian classes to represent rural expertise and customs.
The externus are those more comfortable outside of courts and civilized places. They are respected as they live among the unknown forces of nature and serve as a first response of dangers to the realm. Despite respect for their lifestyle and services, not often trusted within civilized places and often the source of misunderstandings amongst the people and the greater outside world.
Thats the start of it anyways.
GobHag
Adventurer
I'm just giving an example. Using power source as design boxes for classes doesn't seem to do anything, and even seem limiting with how subclasses work. Hell, you might even have a 'Divine' subclass for wizard where their spells can't do friendly fire as their gimmick/leavy patches of sacred ground that buff allies if you make classes more based on roles(AoE blaster)
Hey, it's a hell of a start!
The design box is really just the Role. Source just adds a nifty secondary effect or structure that gives you something identifiable that adds some connection to similarly sourced classes with some differences within role.
As a way to separate an Alchemist (Martial) and Primalist (Nature) to create additional mechanical 'daylight' between the two classes even though their combat role is the same.
And then theme is purely a matter of flavor to ensure any player gets to play any role while fulfilling their personal fantasy of Pretty/Heroic/Dark.
GobHag
Adventurer
But you don't need the power source to be the big differentiation.
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