D&D 5E (2024) Mike Mearls explains why your boss monsters die too easily

[Parmandur]

Frequent-rest games being common is reality. My claim is that they're common because players prefer them to the offered alternatives - and if that's reality too, then that's also hard to fight.

Given how easy they are to avoid, I tend to doubt how common the 5MWD are in broad practice.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Given how easy they are to avoid, I tend to doubt how common the 5MWD are in broad practice.

I think they are common, but not particularly because the players push for them. They're common because people play in Critical Role style where there are a few combats here and there, but rarely several crammed into single day let alone six or eight. And they use standard rest rules because that's the default and I don't think 5.5 even has the optional ones.

 

[Parmandur]

I think they are common, but not particularly because the players push for them. They're common because people play in Critical Role style where there are a few combats here and there, but rarely several crammed into single day let alone six or eight. And they use standard rest rules because that's the default and I don't think 5.5 even has the optional ones.

But Critical Role doesn't cheese long rests, they just have fewer fights most of the time. There have even been instances where they did larger Dungeon delves...and Mercer makes sure there were consequences for even minor delays, like he hits the players where they live sometimes (the Gboll infested mines with villager hostages near the beginning of Mighty Nein springs to mind: he pushed a full Adventure Fay, and villagers the players had actually invested in died just because they dodged slightly, they didn't do a 5MWD).

 

[Crimson Longinus]

But Critical Role doesn't cheese long rests, they just have fewer fights most of the time. There have even been instances where they did larger Dungeon delves...and Mercer makes sure there were consequences for even minor delays, like he hits the players where they live sometimes (the Gboll infested mines with villager hostages near the beginning of Mighty Nein springs to mind: he pushed a full Adventure Fay, and villagers the players had actually invested in died just because they dodged slightly, they didn't do a 5MWD).

Yes, but most of the time their fights are effectively 5MWD fights as there is only one fight per day.

 

[Parmandur]

Yes, but most of the time their fights are effectively 5MWD fights as there is only one fight per day.

But because that's just where the story is at a given point, they aren't breaking up longer strings of fights by cheesing rests: they know Mercer has time based consequences when there is a big Dungeon on the line. If they tried 5MWD at the end of the Vox Machina campaign to "play optimally", the world would have ended.

Days without a full complement of fights happen, even whole campaigns that don't push the limit: but I doubt many tables are cheesing rests like a static 90s video game.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

But because that's just where the story is at a given point, they aren't breaking up longer strings of fights by cheesing rests: they know Mercer has time based consequences when there is a big Dungeon on the line. If they tried 5MWD at the end of the Vox Machina campaign to "play optimally", the world would have ended.

Days without a full complement of fights happen, even whole campaigns that don't push the limit: but I doubt many tables are cheesing rests like a static 90s video game.

Right, sure, that was my point, we are in agreement. Single fight days do not happen mainly due cheesing, they happen because GMs do not want to run narratives where there are many fights per day.

 

[Parmandur]

Right, sure, that was my point, we are in agreement. Single fight days do not happen mainly due cheesing, they happen because GMs do not want to run narratives where there are many fights per day.

Right, which isn't really a problem im the system as written, it works fine.

I had been addressing the issue of players resisting longer Asventure days to "play optimally": I don't think that happens often in practice.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Right, which isn't really a problem im the system as written, it works fine.

Not so sure it works fine. It messes up the balance between short and long rest classes and it requires the fights to be insanely hard to be any sort of a challenge.

 

[Zardnaar]

Right, sure, that was my point, we are in agreement. Single fight days do not happen mainly due cheesing, they happen because GMs do not want to run narratives where there are many fights per day.

That can take time though or be frustrating/morimg. 6-8 fights its 2 or 3 sessions just combat.

 

[Parmandur]

Not so sure it works fine. It messes up the balance between short and long rest classes and it requires the fights to be insanely hard to be any sort of a challenge.

Sure, but using Critical Role as an example again...I don't think the players even know they are playing a runaway cakewalk most of the time. And I doubt most tables who don't push the limit care much aboutnwither challenge or balance.

I'm not saying nobody who wants fewer fights care about challenge or balance...but I'm saying the Venn overlap seems to be in favor of those blissfully running the game on easy mode or those pushing full Adventure Days...which would explain why WotC has no incentive to change the status quo.