D&D 5E (2014) Thoughts on bonus action potions?

The way I'm hearing it here, folk just weren't using potions if they weren't a bonus action? Even out of combat? My players always use potions as prep for a fight, or to recover from one. They go through a lot of potions 😆
I even use potion miscibility tables! They don't each drink multiple buff potions (typically) but they still use a lot.

Different experiences for different tables, I guess.

Yeah, same. We use full action potions and players use them quite a lot.

If they don't, I think it might be related to two factors:

1) Too frequent rests. We've been discussing in the other thread how basically no one runs the recommended amount of fights. But if your rest/fight ratio is too skewed, restoring HP out of combat simply is not something that is needed. Just take a long rest instead. I use gritty rests, so players appreciate the ability to restore some HP between the rests.

2) No telegraphing, no investigation gameplay. If players basically never know what to expect, they cannot prepare.

In general, the groups I've played with didn't use potions other than for healing often. Then again, we also rarely had time to prep for a specific fight. Even if we knew we were going into a dangerous area there was no way to know the specific threat or when it would happen. I don't think I've ever played or run a D&D game where we regularly had the type of info some people seem to assume.

Yeah, in this sort of gamepay there is not much use for out of combat buff consumables. In my game information gathering and preparing for big fights is a common part of the game.
 

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The way I'm hearing it here, folk just weren't using potions if they weren't a bonus action? Even out of combat? My players always use potions as prep for a fight, or to recover from one. They go through a lot of potions 😆
I even use potion miscibility tables! They don't each drink multiple buff potions (typically) but they still use a lot.

Different experiences for different tables, I guess.
Maybe it's just my experience, but I think something shifted over the past 25 years or so. I remember back in 2e and 3e it was common to do a lot of prep work before facing major challenges. If you were going up against a red dragon, trying to get any sort of fire resistance you could, cold damage, dragonslaying arrows, etc. etc. was part for the course, with groups planning out adventures like Shadowrunners.

But then I started to see a lot of DM advice about countering such strategies- Disjunction traps, antimagic, obscuring the information players could get, tricking them into making all that prep worthless. Suddenly the time honored practice of "scouting ahead" was actively discouraged, as monsters with special senses became the norm, and especially in the 3e era, you started to see skill points dumped into Listen and Spot on enemies (because why not?), to the point that in order to stealth, one needed to be invisible (to both normal sight and darkvision), flying, intangible, and protected from divinations or scrying.

Players who used magical divinations found those actively discouraged as well, with top tier play in 3.5 being called "scry and die" where players would attempt to teleport straight to the major foe, fully buffed, skipping past all other content.

4e didn't even bother making those tactics available for the most part, forcing players to engage with encounters. There wasn't really any reason to avoid encounters, as characters were designed to be able to handle many fights consecutively, and most of their resources were encounter-based or at-will.

By the time 5e rolled around, players often don't know much about the situation they're facing so buffing before combat has simply fallen out of favor. Taking an action in combat to buff as opposed to actively attempting to defeat challenges is rarely worth the effort when most fights end in four rounds. Why drink a potion to give yourself 25 Strength (a mere +2 to hit and damage) for 6 attacks when you could just make 8 attacks? Even if you have a potion of fire resistance when facing the red dragon, the monster does quite a lot of non-fire damage with it's melee attacks and the healing paradigm is such that downing a healing potion with an action is a desperation move, as enemies can generally deal far more damage to you than even a supreme potions 10d4+20 is going to (a CR 10 Young Red Dragon, for example, deals 46 damage on average with it's multiattack vs. the supreme potions average of 45 points of healing)!

Even though I still seed consumables in treasure with an eye for upcoming challenges, by the time the party faces whatever encounter I've prepared them for, said items are generally forgotten about in a bag of holding somewhere (or worse, sold for cash!).

The impact of buffs are weaker, the good potions are expensive and time consuming to make (and that assumes the DM allows for a magic item economy in their game- many don't!), and concentration basically destroys the impact of scrolls used for this purpose. The days of layering buffs on the Fighter before combat are basically gone. You might get a Haste or a Fly and a Death Ward (with the consumable budget going towards a daily Heroes' Feast!) but it's more likely that Haste or Fly is going to be a Hypnotic Pattern or Evard's Black Tentacles.

TLDR: players aren't used to having the option to prepare due to a lack of either information or access to resources. Characters are built to not really need to prepare for most encounters. Using actions in combat that don't directly contribute to victory is seen as "losing slower" as opposed to "winning faster".

Even with bonus action potions, I can tell you that they still don't get used a lot more in my games, because 5e designers decided almost every character needs to be using their bonus action for other things on their turn. Even if someone were downing basic healing potions every turn, it amounts to a lousy 7 temps a turn. Compare that to the 1d6+level temps a Twilight Cleric hands out with no cost to other players' action economy!*

*You can argue that the TC is overpowered, but it's still something 5e designers created, supposedly playtested, and published with the idea that this is perfectly acceptable for the game.
 

Maybe it's just my experience, but I think something shifted over the past 25 years or so. I remember back in 2e and 3e it was common to do a lot of prep work before facing major challenges. If you were going up against a red dragon, trying to get any sort of fire resistance you could, cold damage, dragonslaying arrows, etc. etc. was part for the course, with groups planning out adventures like Shadowrunners.
I've observed that same, not just in TTRPGs but in broader trends around the CRPG space.

My gut feeling is that two trends pushed in that direction.

1) As the focus of the "gamist" portion became more about character building through leveling choices, and demonstrating the competency of a particular build, the use of randomly acquired "loot" to defeat encounters became less aesthetically pleasing. You can see the same focus on "building the character" over "defeating the encounter" as why there became a stronger and stronger preference for permanent items over consumables.

2) As playstyles trended more towards demonstrativeness and theatricality, and away from raw challenge-solving, interrupting the flow of a session to spend 15-30 minutes "buffing up" for a climatic flight also become aesthetically displeasing as it detracted from the session flow of building up for a large encounter.
 

1) As the focus of the "gamist" portion became more about character building through leveling choices, and demonstrating the competency of a particular build, the use of randomly acquired "loot" to defeat encounters became less aesthetically pleasing. You can see the same focus on "building the character" over "defeating the encounter" as why there became a stronger and stronger preference for permanent items over consumables.
Agreed, and it makes me sad.
 

I don't really get the realism argument. Assuming a six second round, with lots of circling around and casting spells and such... how long does it really take to gulp down a potion? I know characters in movies do it in a pitched melee.

A healing potions weighs half a pound. That's around 250ml of Liquud. So a smallish glass. If you are not trained to drink that, it will take you 9 seconds, if you get proficiency in drinking you can do it in 5 seconds: Drinking Actual-Size D&D Potions *SWIRL Method #dungeonsanddragons #dnd
 

A healing potions weighs half a pound. That's around 250ml of Liquud. So a smallish glass. If you are not trained to drink that, it will take you 9 seconds, if you get proficiency in drinking you can do it in 5 seconds: Drinking Actual-Size D&D Potions *SWIRL Method #dungeonsanddragons #dnd

Yeah, you can barely do it in six seconds if that is all you do and you already have it in your hand. There is no way in hell that a person could do that and, say, fight effectively at the same time.
 




*You can argue that the TC is overpowered, but it's still something 5e designers created, supposedly playtested, and published with the idea that this is perfectly acceptable for the game.

Your comparison is definitely valid. Abilities which grant Temporary HP are much more prevalent in 2024 rules. Almost every class has access to either a baseline or subclass ability which is similarly powerful as the Twilight Cleric temp HP ability.

I also really liked your analysis of how players' lack of consumables preparation before combat often stems from the DM inadvertently discouraging it by obscuring the information they would need for effective preparation. I'm definitely going to be thinking about that more in my own adventure design
 

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