D&D 5E (2024) Mike Mearls explains why your boss monsters die too easily

[Yaarel]

Monsters also have a level instead of CR, so encounter design is easier.

Does "monster level" equal PC level? For example, can I use a level 8 player character for a level 8 monster?

Or is a level 8 monster an "appropriate" threat for level 8 characters, and if so, how much is a monster level worth in comparison to a character level?

 

[Micah Sweet]

This thread wouldn't exist if a plurality were satisfied by the current paradigm of boss fights.

But again, if the players are happy with their cool powers and the GMs aren't, what do you do? Are players complaining about this? I see a lot of GMs in this thread.

 

[AdmundfortGeographer]

What does this represent in the fiction? What is the caster actually doing to charge up these spells? Can they do it out of combat too, and if not, why not?

To me the rules do not simulate fiction, fiction emerges from the play.

A caster is not doing anything to charge up. Like they aren’t doing anything to hold onto the energy waiting to be released through casting, I guess. It’d be passive.

In general out of combat isn’t measured in six-second rounds. When precise time is game-critical, is initiative not used?

 

[Yaarel]

Unless the lower level spells suddenly start costing more to cast for no reason, I don't see how that does anything.

For example, with regard to a short-rest spell point system. A level 7 fullcaster has 8 spell points. This can be used to cast two slot 4 spells, or else two 3s, and one 2, or so on. While using the points to cast a lower slot spell can happen, it would usually happen if the particular low-slot spell was situationally useful, or if the fullcaster suspected a short rest wouldnt be possible.

In other words, the spell points that would have been used for lower spells tend to get used for the higher spells instead. Only the useful lower spells remain in play.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

So I've imagined all the times my players pressured themselves into moving on, because it was possible there would be some sort of consequence that they came up with on their own? All of those times never happened?

So you had no part whatsoever in their perception that time was of the essence? Given I know your attitude runs very old-school, when did the players actually create a pressure situation?

Believing there is pressure when there isn't is not the same as creating actual pressure. People can fool themselves into anything. That's not actually applying pressure. When you know that you truly have all the time in the world, what's going to make you apply pressure to yourself? And when you're left in the dark, so you can only guess whether there is pressure or not, that's a GM effort which is...a form of pressure created by the GM. Because you, as GM, control everything the players can possibly know about the world.

So: Do you legitimately have your players knowing that they can take their time, but actively manufacturing their own "oh nooo, we have to rush!" response? Or is it just "I made suggestive comments or let their speculations run wild and then they rushed when they didn't need to"?

 

[Crimson Longinus]

To me the rules do not simulate fiction, fiction emerges from the play.

But one would expect the rules to be at least connected to the fiction.

A caster is not doing anything to charge up. Like they aren’t doing anything to hold onto the energy waiting to be released through casting, I guess. It’d be passive.

In general out of combat isn’t measured in six-second rounds. When precise time is game-critical, is initiative not used?

So when the characters are planning their attack, if one character says "Wizard, we should start by you freezing the gnolls with your [powerful spell]," but the rules say that the wizard can only cast this spell at the third round earliest, what does the wizard say? Is the character aware of that they're not capable of casting this spell right away?

Also, how does this function outside of combat?

 

[Distracted DM]

But again, if the players are happy with their cool powers and the GMs aren't, what do you do? Are players complaining about this? I see a lot of GMs in this thread.

Is the point of the question to say "players are the primary target for WotC's design"?

 

[Micah Sweet]

Is the point of the question to say "players are the primary target for WotC's design"?

I very much believe that, yes. More than ever before in 5e (perhaps earlier).

 

[EzekielRaiden]

But one would expect the rules to be at least connected to the fiction.

As far as I can tell, they are. The issue seems to be that you want them connected only in one particular way, as in one specific form of logical/procedural explanation, and the actual explanation is different. Not bad, nor absent.

So when the characters are planning their attack, if one character says "Wizard, we should start by you freezing the gnolls with your [powerful spell]," but the rules say that the wizard can only cast this spell at the third round earliest, what does the wizard say? Is the character aware of that they're not capable of casting this spell right away?

Also, how does this function outside of combat?

I don't see what the misunderstanding is.

Out of combat, you are generally not going to be limited to the handful of seconds that a round is supposed to be, so "three rounds" is a trivial time to spend preparing to cast. I mean, for goodness' sake, you accept 5e rituals, don't you? Those get a 10 min cast time if shorter than that. How is that in any way meaningfully different from needing to spend a brief moment in quiet contemplation before casting?

I would imagine that, yes, a character would know that they need a few seconds to get ready with one spell, whereas another is instantaneous or nearly so. How is this at all unusual? Heck, didn't early-edition D&D have spells with really long cast times, like multiple rounds? Which you would lose if interrupted?

 

[Gimby]

But one would expect the rules to be at least connected to the fiction.



So when the characters are planning their attack, if one character says "Wizard, we should start by you freezing the gnolls with your [powerful spell]," but the rules say that the wizard can only cast this spell at the third round earliest, what does the wizard say? Is the character aware of that they're not capable of casting this spell right away?

Also, how does this function outside of combat?

For a magic system designed for this purpose, this is certainly something that can be answered. Perhaps combat magic is powered by the emotions generated by deadly conflict and there is no way of replicating this outside of fights to the death. Perhaps combat magic is provided by entertaining extraplanar entities that are attracted to bloodshed. With a bit of care, you can create fiction that supports your rules well enough for a large portion of players, at least as well as the very thin description given for spell slots in 5e. That said, I strongly expect this post to attract nit picking to "prove" these options "can't" work that I'm not really interested in.

Perhaps magic is just not amenable to naturalistic understanding at all and relies on principles that don't have easy real world analogues - that's what makes it magic and not physics.