D&D 5E (2024) Let's Write A High Level Adventure

[Reynard]

While I certainly would avoid the ham-fisted hobbling of older editions (usually by denying or twisting the useage of spells), sometimes using the environment to put a monkeywrench into the straightforward approach makes things interesting. I think for a lot of these high level encounters that the environment is going to have to be an enemy/factor as much as the physical foes to challenge the PCs. I'm not just talking about putting the fight into a field of burning lava that deals damage but that hinders/limit movement or actions, changes the effectiveness of certain attacks or abilities or mucks with PCs ability to choose their targets.

In short, make the combat into a puzzle so novaing & focus fire can't be the go-to tactic.

I don't necessarily disagree, but I find it revealing that no one has actually engaged with the idea of actually breaking down what 16th level character can do in order to examine how one might design encounters that engage those abilities. All we have gotten is people complaining about how it is impossible to design high level adventures. And frankly, for those people, it seems a little weird that they are in the thread at all.

 

[Stormonu]

I don't necessarily disagree, but I find it revealing that no one has actually engaged with the idea of actually breaking down what 16th level character can do in order to examine how one might design encounters that engage those abilities. All we have gotten is people complaining about how it is impossible to design high level adventures. And frankly, for those people, it seems a little weird that they are in the thread at all.

Well, by 16th level it's very difficult to nail down exactly what the party has or doesn't - and that can be a huge swing on the adventure design. We could go into Beyond and create a generic Fighter, Rogue, Wizard & Cleric party all at 16th level for a basis, but that's unlikely to actually represent what's out in the real world when you consider subclasses and magic items on top. It's one of the reasons I've always thought high-level adventures need to be tailored to the play group, and why WotC and the like have such issues writing a high-level adventure that isn't crap.

Maybe one of the Charop folks would be kind enough to help us here giving us an "average-good" group we could design around?

 

[Zardnaar]

While I certainly would avoid the ham-fisted hobbling of older editions (usually by denying or twisting the useage of spells), sometimes using the environment to put a monkeywrench into the straightforward approach makes things interesting. I think for a lot of these high level encounters that the environment is going to have to be an enemy/factor as much as the physical foes to challenge the PCs. I'm not just talking about putting the fight into a field of burning lava that deals damage but that hinders/limit movement or actions, changes the effectiveness of certain attacks or abilities or mucks with PCs ability to choose their targets.

In short, make the combat into a puzzle so novaing & focus fire can't be the go-to tactic.


While I don't play much high level, I much prefer using numbers than attempting to "top out" and overwhelm the PCs through superior power directed into a single (or dual) opponent. Outnumbering the party goes a long ways towards splitting firepower and resources. I also think it makes an interesting encounter if the PCs have to make (hard) choices on where to direct their firepower and who to take out first and gives the Leader/Boss/Subboss some ablative armor to let them do their thing before being taken out.


Doesn't even have to be that; Demons & Devils that aren't on their home plane return and reform on their home plane if defeated, and they can hold quite the grudge. If we were to use the scenario I suggested earlier, it could be the Pit Fiend and Balor are watching from a Yugoloth's "gaming" abode in Gehenna (neutral ground), for example.

Yeah encounter designs an art form.

Best higher level encounters adding a few more bodies is key. Downside is real life time.

 

[Zardnaar]

Well, by 16th level it's very difficult to nail down exactly what the party has or doesn't - and that can be a huge swing on the adventure design. We could go into Beyond and create a generic Fighter, Rogue, Wizard & Cleric party all at 16th level for a basis, but that's unlikely to actually represent what's out in the real world when you consider subclasses and magic items on top. It's one of the reasons I've always thought high-level adventures need to be tailored to the play group, and why WotC and the like have such issues writing a high-level adventure that isn't crap.

Maybe one of the Charop folks would be kind enough to help us here giving us an "average-good" group we could design around?

Magic items use the 5.5 rules.

Start with basic +1/+2/+3 items. Dont allow perfect weapon builds. Eg champion fighter dual wielding vicious weapon each hand.

Something like a frostbrand is a nice not broken very rare weapon to hand out. That could also be +3 weapon or shield or +2 armor.

The really good weapons are the +2d6 ones. Flametongues, vicious. Various legendary ones in WotC adventures.

Spellcasters a wand or staff is fine. Dont go overboard on stacking spell boosting items. A wand of the warmage+1 or +2 is also fine to hand out.

Sane levels add +1 -+3 to hit and damage 1 or 2 to spell DCs and maybe an extra d6 damage via weapons eg +2 weapon extra d6 damage.

High power weapon is +2 or better and +2d6 damage.

Poison damage treat as weaker along with fire.

Dumping stats and using a girdle or gauntlets of ogre power dont do that. The strength boost item might end up on a cleric or rogue. Primary striker shouldn't need it unless its 22+.