D&D General Mapping: How Do You Do It?

[Charlaquin]

My point is the characters may well be much better at mapping then the GM-Player combo. A character might have a very high map drawing ability.

The character can’t draw a map, because the character is imaginary.

The same character might be played by a player with drawing challenges or that has trouble understanding what the GM is saying. Die rolls are the player's way to determine how well a character does.

Die rolls are the DM’s way of resolving uncertainty in the outcome of an action the player declares their character is doing. In the case of drawing a map, there’s no uncertainty in the outcome, because the player(s)can actually draw one, and the character(s) can’t.

Player mapping turns this around and the character is relying on how well the player handles the map drawing and later tries to interpret the scribbles.

Yes, that’s the challenge.

Part of the time sink of mapping is making sure the players are correctly drawing out what the GM is saying the characters see.

Nah. If you’re making drawing a map part of the gameplay challenge, that includes the player(s) ability to interpret the DM’s description and translate that to a visible format. If you don’t want that to be part of the gameplay challenge, the DM can simply draw the maps ahead of time and give them to the players if the succeed on a roll or whatever. That’s a legitimate, but very different, approach to dungeon adventures.

As you mention, very possible that what the characters see is misleading. Now the issue for the GM is making sure the players are correctly drawing out the 'improper' map that accurately reflects what the characters think they see.

Now that’s just nonsense.

 

[Charlaquin]

This. My group maps. I as a player do that and as a DM I encourage it.
But the "dungeon" needs to be mappable.
Like, I started playing with Lost mines of Phandelvar, newbie players and newbie DM - and when we got to the lost mines, damn did my DM struggle to explain it properly and it was a pain to map.

In order for a dungeon to be capable by players ...

I actually made a whole blog post about that topic over 2 years ago:

Creating a Structurally Playable Dungeon – Dungeon Design Part 1 – A.B. Funings Blog

Fantastic blog post! I wholeheartedly agree with the dungeon design principles you laid out there. The choice to use Wave Echo cave as an example is also a great one. Did you go on to flesh out the 10 unkeyed rooms in later posts?

 

[M_Natas]

This feels like easy/casual mode for the players' benefit.

It is more acknowledging that we are people playing pretend elf sitting at a table in someone's kitchen or dinning room.
It needs to be simpler or it becomes unplayable at an Inperson-Game (VTTs are a different thing, but quickly that can turn into a bad video game).

And you and your players need to speak the same language of describing the dungeon.
Session 0 - "Guys, when I describe bigger locations you want to explore, like the underdark , bigger dungeons, caves ect.pp. in order for it to be manageable at the table, we use the following rules:

• For directions I use cardinal directions - North, South, East, West, Upkeep and down. In general those are also the possible exits and entrances to a room.
• Sizes for rooms are small, medium, big and gigantic.
• when ever a tunnel makes a (noticeable) turn, I will treat that as another room, to make navigation in the dungeon formplayers more accessible.

Here is a small handout for the way I describe things, so we are on the same page. If I will deviate from the formula, I will notify you of the exception.

That's fine, but it shouldn't be considered "required."

No it is not required, but I find it helps with immersion.

Sometimes the game IS the map.

I don't know what you mean with that.

 

[M_Natas]

Fantastic blog post! I wholeheartedly agree with the dungeon design principles you laid out there. The choice to use Wave Echo cave as an example is also a great one. Did you go on to flesh out the 10 unkeyed rooms in later posts?

Sadly not - Life happens and two kids later I struggle to post anything at all on my blog ^^.

 

[Charlaquin]

Sadly not - Life happens and two kids later I struggle to post anything at all on my blog ^^.

No worries! Just curious. Regardless, I think you have some compelling thoughts about dungeon design!

 

[Charlaquin]

This feels like easy/casual mode for the players' benefit. That's fine, but it shouldn't be considered "required." Sometimes the game IS the map.

It definitely is a set of principles that specifically aims to make a dungeon easier to map for the players’ benefit. While it doesn’t sound like what you need, I think it’s a great way to introduce players to this “mapping as part of the challenge of a dungeon” type of gameplay who haven’t experienced it yet. Giving them a space that is extremely approachable for mapping purposes could help them cut their teeth on the practice. After doing a few early dungeons this way, you can slowly start to introduce more complex elements that throw a wrench in the works and forces them to further refine their practices. Eventually they can work their way up to dungeons that deliberately resist being mapped, but most groups who aren’t used to this kind of gameplay aren’t going to respond well to being thrown straight into the deep end. But they might find they enjoy it if taught more gradually.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

The character can’t draw a map, because the character is imaginary.

Die rolls are the DM’s way of resolving uncertainty in the outcome of an action the player declares their character is doing. In the case of drawing a map, there’s no uncertainty in the outcome, because the player(s)can actually draw one, and the character(s) can’t.

Yes, that’s the challenge.

Nah. If you’re making drawing a map part of the gameplay challenge, that includes the player(s) ability to interpret the DM’s description and translate that to a visible format. If you don’t want that to be part of the gameplay challenge, the DM can simply draw the maps ahead of time and give them to the players if the succeed on a roll or whatever. That’s a legitimate, but very different, approach to dungeon adventures.

Now that’s just nonsense.

What is the purpose of the player drawing map if it does not correspond to any character activity? I really do not see what is gained by the player attempting to draw a map from the DM's description.