D&D General Wildly Diverse "Circus Troupe" Adventuring Parties

[Kurotowa]

I point out that ECMO3's groups are typically very focused on optimization and not, I think, that representative of typical groups.

I'm increasingly suspicious of the idea that a single "typical group" even exists.

With online multiplayer video games, there's a feedback loop because everyone is in a single shared community. People share information, people copy what's successful, trends emerge, social pressures exert themselves, and "the meta" develops where certain choices or play patterns become dominant. But that only happens because everyone is in the same play pool.

With a TTRPG, only a minority of players go out and get involved in online discussions. And even then they're usually just bringing home tricks and tips. When it comes to playing, it's still with their one or maybe two groups in real life. So every group is developing in isolation, and like remote islands full of weird mutations all sorts of highly specific local play patterns. The "meta" is limited to a particular group; how they interpret certain rules, what sort of campaigns they run, what social behaviors they encourage or discourage.

So I don't think a "typical group" exists except in the broadest of data driven trend analysis. And that's something no one outside of WotC really has the data to do.

 

[GobHag]

I'm increasingly suspicious of the idea that a single "typical group" even exists.

With online multiplayer video games, there's a feedback loop because everyone is in a single shared community. People share information, people copy what's successful, trends emerge, social pressures exert themselves, and "the meta" develops where certain choices or play patterns become dominant. But that only happens because everyone is in the same play pool.

With a TTRPG, only a minority of players go out and get involved in online discussions. And even then they're usually just bringing home tricks and tips. When it comes to playing, it's still with their one or maybe two groups in real life. So every group is developing in isolation, and like remote islands full of weird mutations all sorts of highly specific local play patterns. The "meta" is limited to a particular group; how they interpret certain rules, what sort of campaigns they run, what social behaviors they encourage or discourage.

So I don't think a "typical group" exists except in the broadest of data driven trend analysis. And that's something no one outside of WotC really has the data to do.

I honestly think you're underselling how much the effects of internet has accelerated the spread of practices and culture, even the early zines/letters days have that kind of thing happen frequently. Those isolated islands are undoubtedly the majority but the minority that do get involved will have disproportionate impact on the 'culture'--The 80/20 rule in effect.

 

[ECMO3]

There's a halfling in my current school campaign. They're not a super common character class, but not rare, either. There's also a lizardfolk, dragonborn, tiefling, human, gnome, and elf.

I point out that ECMO3's groups are typically very focused on optimization and not, I think, that representative of typical groups.

Well I personally play a lot of Halflings .... and I am part of all of "ECMO3's groups". It is probably my favorite race or maybe Human is, but it is top 2 for me personally.

I don't see a lot of other people I play with who play Halflings though and it is one of the rarest PHB races overall in games I have played, which include a lot of different groups. Aasimar and Tieflings are rare too.

When it comes to non-PHB races, most of those are rare but there are a few I see other people play more often than Halflings - Shaddar Kai, Eladrin, Bugbears, and Shifters. That is probably for optimization as these are all strong races. I also think optimization is the reason we are seeing more Dwarves recently.

I don't think optimization is the reason I see few Halflings though (other than myself). For one thing Halfling is not underpowered. In terms of PHB races it is behind Humans and Dwarves, but Halfling is on the upper end of the PHB races. Mechanically Halfling is generally stronger than Elves, Orcs(Half-Orcs) and Half-Elves and I see a lot more of the latter at the table. Of course this depends on specific build, but I will go out on a limb and say Halfling is probably mechanically the best PHB species for a 2024 Monk and arguably the best PHB species for a Barbarian or a non-caster melee Rogue (although there is competition on the last 2).

Also I noted I do see the other non-PHB power races but I don't see many Kobolds or Goblins and both of those are very powerful races which should be a natural attraction for optimizers, especially before the 2024 PHB. Yet they aren't - again I am the only one who has played Goblins in any of my games and I played 2 of 3 Kobolds I've seen in the last 10 years.

My hypothesis is I think people don't like playing small PCs as much as medium PCs.

 

[bloodtide]

Again, you are making very strong statements here that are not supported by any actual information. Halflngs, by every single piece of evidence we have, are the bottom choice in the PHB. And they always have been. It's not a mistake that every race in 2e got a full Complete Guide, except gnomes and halflings. Why would you claim that halflings are popular?

There is a Complete Guide to Gnomes and Halflings......

I run an afterschool D&D club for middle-schoolers . . . it's all dragonborn and tieflings.

This is also true of most high school kids and collage kids. As always for the last dozen years, a lot of young people really focus on Tieflings as they have the wacky "Anime" esthetic and they are "bad". After that, many young girls love elves...guess that comes from fairy tales.

 

[Clint_L]

I think you see so few halflings because your sample size is small. You also see few tielfings, yet that is one of the most common species that I see being taken. Tons of goblins, too.

This is just anecdotal evidence, though. Neither of us has anything like a representative sample size, and manifestly our experiences are different.

 

[Hussar]

There is a Complete Guide to Gnomes and Halflings......

And thus, that would be my point. Gnomes and Halflings are so unpopular that despite EVERY OTHER PHB race getting their own book, they had to split one between the two.

Because we keep seeing people play them in our games? Three of the last four DnD games I've played have had a halfling character. Although the games did share some players, they were all different players. The fourth one was a spell jammer game so half the players opted for SJ characters. Halflings have always seemed to be in the games I'm in going back 50 years to middle school (Where the halfling battle cry was "Run away!")

Sigh. The plural of anecdote is not data. We have survey after survey, D&D Beyond statistics, Baldur's Gate 3 statistics, EVERY SINGLE source of information says that you are wrong. But, because you personally happen to see a lot of halflings, that's suppose to be the truth?

I mean, good grief, how much evidence do people need?

Is also British, if slightly less English. Tolkien and Warhammer share a deep mistrust of the powerful.

Tolkien mistrusts the powerful? Seriously? Gandalf and Galadriel would like to have a word.

But, that aside, halflings in Warhammer are a joke. They are meant as the butt of the joke. They are included in the setting specifically AS a running joke. That was the point I was trying to make.

 

[billd91]

Tolkien mistrusts the powerful? Seriously? Gandalf and Galadriel would like to have a word.

They are not trustworthy because they are powerful. They are powerful because they are trustworthy. That's a repeated element in Lord of the Rings.
Morgoth, Sauron, Saruman, Isildur, Denethor, Fëanor, the Sons of Fëanor - all powerful individuals - most of the pre-eminent powers in Middle Earth during their times. None are truly trustworthy.
Aragorn, Gandalf, Galadriel, Faramir, Elrond - all achieve and demonstrate their power by long labor, forthrightness, and moral right.

 

[ECMO3]

I think you see so few halflings because your sample size is small. You also see few tielfings, yet that is one of the most common species that I see being taken. Tons of goblins, too.

I play over 20 hours of D&D a week.

Of course it is all anecdotal, but it lines up pretty well with the data scraped from places like D&D Beyond. The most recent data I have seen from 2023 has Tieflings, Halflings, Aasimar and Gnomes as the least popular PHB races, in that order (most popular to least). In fact these are all behind Genasi.

 

[Hussar]

((As a total aside, I'm getting replied to by people I cannot see. @Bill91 is not on my ignore list, but, despite him quoting me, I cannot see his posts. Is this a bug?))