D&D General Mike Mearls says control spells are ruining 5th Edition

[Zardnaar]

The point is that lowering saves and making it 3 rounds makes the problem a lot worse. Control spells only need to work for 1 or 2 rounds to destroy an encounter at the current save levels.

This. Command for example is usually a tempo loss. Vs Solis or a few critters (generally 1-3) it tends to hose them. 5.5 its easily twinned as well. Very low opportunity cost.

Hold spells basically a death sentence. A tier 2 champion can critters 10% of the time. 20% roughly using vex and inspiration (eg lvl 10). Paralyzed that becomes 100%. Also easily and cheaply twinned.

Fodder doesnt matter due to spells like spirit guardians. Party composition matters sure but theres usually other ways of doing it.

 

[wizard71]

The point is that lowering saves and making it 3 rounds makes the problem a lot worse. Control spells only need to work for 1 or 2 rounds to destroy an encounter at the current save levels.

That is not an issue with control spells. It’s an issue with PC’s being overpowered.

 

[FrogReaver]

That is not an issue with control spells. It’s an issue with PC’s being overpowered.

The control spells are generally why casters are OP.

 

[Zardnaar]

The control spells are generally why casters are OP.

They cant seal the deal very well. The control spells ideally are enabling the martials.

Its not 3E anymore.

Control spells+ high damage are overwhelming 5E monsters with minimal effort assuming you're vaguely aware of what to do.

 

[wizard71]

The control spells are generally why casters are OP.

Not against creatures with magic resistance. A lot of the saves have been buffed. With MR they tend to have a decent chance. Plus legendary resistance makes control spells a joke.

 

[Zardnaar]

Not against creatures with magic resistance. A lot of the saves have been buffed. With MR they tend to have a decent chance. Plus legendary resistance makes control spells a joke.

SR generally only matters if you have a decent save to begin with.

Spell SCs can ve around 17-19 level 9.

 

[wizard71]

SR generally only matters if you have a decent save to begin with.

Spell SCs can ve around 17-19 level 9.

They do have decent Wis saves for a lot of
MR monsters. I am playing a 15th level sorcerer currently and I hardly ever bother with control spells. The mariliths we fought had a 8 wisdom save. Having MR equals roughly a 5 to the roll so that is a +13 save vs DC 19. The other sorcerer cast slow and every single marilith made the save. Control spells are a joke at high levels either due to saves with MR or auto makes due to legendary resistance m. They are trap spells not worth having at high levels.

 

[Zardnaar]

They do have decent Wis saves for a lot of
MR monsters. I am playing a 15th level sorcerer currently and I hardly ever bother with control spells. The mariliths we fought had a 8 wisdom save. Having MR equals roughly a 5 to the roll so that is a +13 save vs DC 19. The other sorcerer cast slow and every single marilith made the save. Control spells are a joke at high levels either due to saves with MR or auto makes due to legendary resistance m. They are trap spells not worth having at high levels.

Marilith is a bit of an exception. My PCs encountered a DM special one at lvl 12. Then another one lvl 13.

Alir if the higher CR stuff has good defenses. Its to long to weight to CR 16ish creatures.

Theres not many of them in the MM either.

 

[wizard71]

Marilith is a bit of an exception. My PCs encountered a DM special one at lvl 12. Then another one lvl 13.

Alir if the higher CR stuff has good defenses. Its to long to weight to CR 16ish creatures.

Theres not many of them in the MM either.

Dude you are just flat out wrong. The Glabrezu is a CR 9 and he has a +7 Wis saves. With MR that’s an average of +12 on a roll against 16-19. The monsters have been buffed. Magic Resistance and Auto Saves give me zero incentive to waste 6th level or higher spell slots on control spells.

 

[FrogReaver]

Dude you are just flat out wrong. The Glabrezu is a CR 9 and he has a +7 Wis saves. With MR that’s an average of +12 on a roll against 16-19. The monsters have been buffed.

The question is whether that’s the exception or the rule. Cherry picking a few enemies doesn’t validate your point. Perhaps almost all of them are that way, but that’s not what you are currently saying.

Magic Resistance and Auto Saves give me zero incentive to waste 6th level or higher spell slots on control spells.

For single target control you rarely need more than 1st or 2nd level slots…