D&D 5E (2024) So, what does the Artificer "replace"?

[Clint_L]

A 5e party can be successful with any combination of characters.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Oh, it's doable.l, pretty easy really.

Putting time limits on adventures gets old real quick. Particularly when you typically have zero to three combat encounters per session. A game day ends up lasting real time months.

I think a major secret of the 5E sauce, however, is that you don't need to push the long term challenge button for people to have fun.

Absolutely this. And one of the things that is fun is building characters around a narrative or theme that is not mechanically “optimal” and not have to worry about failing because of it.

 

[Parmandur]

Putting time limits on adventures gets old real quick. Particularly when you typically have zero to three combat encounters per session. A game day ends up lasting real time months.

I mean, yeah, it's not abnormal for a Dungeon to last a couple of sessions, sure. It is also possible to get the full combat "quota" in one sitting, 5E combats move fast.

Absolutely this. And one of the things that is fun is building characters around a narrative or theme that is not mechanically “optimal” and not have to worry about failing because of it.

Making the game optimization neutral is definitely one of the better choices WotC made.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

I mean, yeah, it's not abnormal for a Dungeon to last a couple of sessions, sure. It is also possible to get the full combat "quota" in one sitting, 5E combats move fast.

It’s not so much the time requirement - a constant stream of battles quickly gets boring. I’ve found that three per session is about the maximum our group can tolerate and still find it enjoyable rather than a chore.

 

[Charlaquin]

You could throw twenty tarasques at the party and it still wouldn’t be a particularly difficult encounter. But that’s because combat isn’t the point, it’s just an interlude between plot decisions.

Okay, it’s possible for the monsters to win if they can one shot the entire party before the players get a turn, but in any remotely fair fight a party of four unoptimised tactical duffers over level 2 will always win. That’s why I find all this talk of optimisation silly. If you need to bother with that in order to win you must be really appallingly bad at tactics.

Sounds to me like you might not be running your monsters optimally.

 

[Clint_L]

Further to my point above, the idea of clearly defined and necessary roles that need to be filled in the party stams back to OD&D and evolved to reach its apotheosis in CRPGs, especially World of Warcraft, which by all accounts was a strong influence on how 4e built its classes to fit into those same roles. 5e obviously moved hard in the other direction, making combat much less dependent on particular niches being filled, and making so that every class has different niches it can fill as needed and desired. The artificer, perhaps because it came last, sort of feels like the strongest expression of that design philosophy, and can pretty easily slot into any niche the player wants.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Fighter had to be a defender. Sucked as an archer in the phb.

Nope. Fighter could use its defender mechanics to be a striker or controller, too. As far as archer and ghe phb, ehich phb? Theyre all core.

 

[Parmandur]

Sounds to me like you might not be running your monsters optimally.

 

[Parmandur]

Further to my point above, the idea of clearly defined and necessary roles that need to be filled in the party stams back to OD&D and evolved to reach its apotheosis in CRPGs, especially World of Warcraft, which by all accounts was a strong influence on how 4e built its classes to fit into those same roles. 5e obviously moved hard in the other direction, making combat much less dependent on particular niches being filled, and making so that every class has different niches it can fill as needed and desired. The artificer, perhaps because it came last, sort of feels like the strongest expression of that design philosophy, and can pretty easily slot into any niche the player wants.

Thing is, it felt more organic when the old school wargamers were designing it based off of historical parallels of mixed arms, less so with the more game-oriented design.

 

[Zardnaar]

Nope. Fighter could use its defender mechanics to be a striker or controller, too. As far as archer and ghe phb, ehich phb? Theyre all core.

Just the first phb.

5E fighter. 4 types vs 2 and you can do all the main things expected without having to buy more books. And you dont have to be a defender.