D&D 5E (2024) Preferences in a New Official 5.5e Specific Setting

[Minigiant]

I don't know how hard or easy it would be to do a S&S version of 5e D&D.

But I don't think that there is anything about RPGing per se that makes it hard to have S&S RPGing.

It's not that it would be hard as much as

1. You lack material and have to Homebrew a lot of material
2. The campaign would be limited because you would have to ban a lot
3. The options you do allow would be further limited and stale

5e, like 4e, was specifically written to go from local to kingdom to planar/planetary to multiplanar.

 

[Remathilis]

My main issue with 5e is how superheroic it is, that gets in the way of S&S, I don’t think the OSR could not cover that however. Personally I would get rid of all full casters, at best you are a half-caster along the lines of the abandoned 2024 warlock, and stop somewhere around levels 10-12. Solves much of what makes 5e unsuitable, but obviously is a pretty big rewrite / homebrew

That's my point: if you have to make a pretty big rewrite/homebrew, then I don't feel the game is particularly suited for the genre. For example, if you have to ban or change half the classes that use magic, then the game a poor fit. Especially since that has knock-on effects to species, feats, monsters, etc. Now I will agree that you could make a damn fine d20 5e-compatible S&S game where you create an appropriate spell system that emulates the low-and-dangeous magic of S&S, but that's not D&D anymore. That's its own thing.

S&S in D&D looks like Primeval Thule: full casters, a variety of species (including dwarves, elves, and halflings), and semi-common magic, but dressed up in loincloths, cultists, elder gods, slavers, and the like. It being D&D takes precedent over its being faithful to S&S. Otherwise, you are building a Conan RPG and calling it D&D for name recognition.

 

[Remathilis]

It's not that it would be hard as much as

1. You dry material and have to Homebrew a lot of material
2. The campaign would be limited because you would have to ban a lot
3. The options you do allow would be further limited and stale

5e, like 4e, was specifically written to go from local to kingdom to planar/planetary to multiplanar.

This has always been my problem with setting like Dark Sun: it tries so hard to emulate the genre it paints you into the corner as far as expansion goes. I'd rather sacrifice fidelity to genre emulation and have a wider selection of options than I would banning and homebrewing the game so much its practically incompatible with itself...

 

[mamba]

That's my point: if you have to make a pretty big rewrite/homebrew, then I don't feel the game is particularly suited for the genre. For example, if you have to ban or change half the classes that use magic, then the game a poor fit. Especially since that has knock-on effects to species, feats, monsters, etc. Now I will agree that you could make a damn fine d20 5e-compatible S&S game where you create an appropriate spell system that emulates the low-and-dangeous magic of S&S, but that's not D&D anymore. That's its own thing.

S&S in D&D looks like Primeval Thule: full casters, a variety of species (including dwarves, elves, and halflings), and semi-common magic, but dressed up in loincloths, cultists, elder gods, slavers, and the like. It being D&D takes precedent over its being faithful to S&S. Otherwise, you are building a Conan RPG and calling it D&D for name recognition.

I agreed with D&D not being good at S&S right from the start, but that wasn't what I initially reacted to. That was that you have to create a setting first and only then can create a game to match it. As you wrote

I only used it as an example because it's the current topic.

and the notion that the setting has to come first rather than that you can create a setting that fits an existing TTRPG, that I disagree with

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I think you remove certain spells (maybe even the magic system), fiddle with the long rest/healing, show DMs and players how to adjust flavor text, beef up singular creatures, and make fighting a large group of guards close to impossible (possibly tinkering with armor). I think part of the goal is to have fewer encounters per day (1 or 2), cross-country exploration more of a hardship, and a cities/towns (despite the thieves' guilds) more of a safe-haven.

IMO magic skills with spells as exclusively found/rewarded 'treasure', is the way to go for thst sort of game. Thst way even a wizard can feel horrifyngly outclassed by The Sorceress of Lokh Ammât Tal and her dreaded Tome of Sul'anat al Tanit Keth or whatever.

A mage in such a world can be trying to restore a lost tradition by regaining the books looted from his Order's fallen library, and the world can naturally tempt him with villainy as he gains power by showing him the power other magic users gain when they treat with Old Powers and turn innocent people into batteries for their Fell Magics.

Its what Dark Sun could have been.

 

[Minigiant]

That's my point: if you have to make a pretty big rewrite/homebrew, then I don't feel the game is particularly suited for the genre. For example, if you have to ban or change half the classes that use magic, then the game a poor fit. Especially since that has knock-on effects to species, feats, monsters, etc. Now I will agree that you could make a damn fine d20 5e-compatible S&S game where you create an appropriate spell system that emulates the low-and-dangeous magic of S&S, but that's not D&D anymore. That's its own thing

Really to do a decent 5e-compatible S&S game or paint S&S trappings on a Heroic Fantasy gameplay base, I would

1. Create a lot of new humaniods stat blocks
2. Create a lot of new beast stat blocks
3. Create a bunch of weapons with new weapon masteries
4. Ban a bunch of spells
5. Create a bunch of new spells
6. Design a trade-off for Prepared Spells for something else

It's less difficulty of work than volume of work. And more that you'll either create stuff no one will pay for or accidentally spawn 5 mistakes like Silvery Barbs.

 

[Hussar]

Jurassic Park’s T Rex is a lot more badass than CR8!

That's the problem though. It really isn't. Other than a big bite attack, a T-Rex is a minor baddy. It can't fly, it has no magical abilities, it doesn't regenerate or breathe fire or any of the million other things it could do. Heck, it doesn't even cause fear.

So, how much CR can it actually have? An 8th level party is easily capable of dealing 100 points of damage per round. That's without expending a single resource. To make that T-Rex a credible threat, it needs at least 400 hp - enough to survive 4 rounds. A standard T-Rex has 136 Hp. Against even an 8th level party, it's unlikely to make more than one round of attacks.

IOW, to make that T-Rex a CR 13 or so creature, you need to quadruple it's hp, raise it's AC and then give it about four more attacks per round.

 

[Scott Christian]

For some DMs personal pet project, go nuts.

For an Official D&D setting published by Wizards of the Coast? Hard no.

Personally, I think D&D is a terrible system for anything that isn't Dungeons and Dragons with a pinch of genre tropes sprinkled on top. But that's just me. I'd rather have a setting like Primeval Thule where the setting overlays S&S on the regular D&D experience than try to bend and twist D&D into giving an authentic S&S experience.

I agree 100%. I just meant as a 5-page blurb in the DM's Guide. That's all.

 

[Scott Christian]

you are posting this in a thread about creating a setting for 5.5, so either the rules can come first or the whole thread falls apart

I actually think of D&D as a setting. Not FR or Greyhawk or Ebberon, but D&D. And I think the rules are fantastic for the D&D setting.

I was commenting on a 5-page blurb added to the DM's Guide that contains alternate rules for S&S.

 

[Hussar]

That's my point: if you have to make a pretty big rewrite/homebrew, then I don't feel the game is particularly suited for the genre. For example, if you have to ban or change half the classes that use magic, then the game a poor fit. Especially since that has knock-on effects to species, feats, monsters, etc. Now I will agree that you could make a damn fine d20 5e-compatible S&S game where you create an appropriate spell system that emulates the low-and-dangeous magic of S&S, but that's not D&D anymore. That's its own thing.

S&S in D&D looks like Primeval Thule: full casters, a variety of species (including dwarves, elves, and halflings), and semi-common magic, but dressed up in loincloths, cultists, elder gods, slavers, and the like. It being D&D takes precedent over its being faithful to S&S. Otherwise, you are building a Conan RPG and calling it D&D for name recognition.

To be fair, Primeval Thule reminds me a lot of Steven Erikson's Malazan series. Which isn't quite S&S, but, it's pretty close. Far closer to something like the Black Company.