Yes, 'The Algorithm' REALLY IS Like That

[Alzrius]

What are you trying to say here?

I'd be happy to elaborate if you want to PM me.

 

[TheSword]

So, the problem is that this isn't a simple implementation question.

Proof of age is based on government documentation of individuals, not private systems. If that documentation is not up to snuff for digital use, then the requirement cannot be met by the private sector.

Or, more simply, there is no current working digital ID standard for private companies to implement.

We have many verification systems in the UK that use hard copy ID verification using a scan. I had a criminal records check with work that only required hard copy ID. My partner scanned in a driving license for him GMC membership ID. I’m pretty sure I had to provide hard copy ID to withdraw my winning back in my online poker stint. This is not beyond human ingenuity.

Data management companies or institutions could no doubt be formed that could act as verification intermediaries without giving Facebook your passport.

I guess my point is, if the law mandated ID registration the companies would be required to find a way in order to operate in that jurisdiction.

 

[TheSword]

Look at the UK, they implement age verification and nothing decent has been implemented before it's enforced. Why? Because a physical ID does not work in a purely digital environment. Anything that's been implemented so far is just to legally isolate companies from blame, without actually solving the requirement. And that results in a LOT of privacy information of children in the hands of parties that should NOT have that information in the first place.

It's like banning alcohol while driving while relying on the ability of the officers to smell the alcohol on the breath of the people driving...

'Basics of ethics' is an always evolving thing that's restricted by its time and place. The US tech bros are being held to the basic ethics of capitalism and the American Dream (to become that 1%)... Different countries with different standards that are trying their best to keep up with technical developments and in some cases, try to look out for their population's health...

There’s no privacy of children information because children wouldn’t be able to join. It’s privacy of adults but we are already in that world. Unfortunately when it comes to online presence people can’t be trusted with anonymity. Though see my previous post about intermediary organizations to verify sensitive info like privacy.

The European data regulations use a set of digital ethical principles. Right to erasure. Lawful use of data only. Right of data portability. It is not impossible to agree a set of modern ethics to handle online affairs. Even between dozens of countries.

 

[Scribe]

Anyway, wonder what it could be.

Boldt is part of a growing number of young people who are turning to self-harm in Canada, according to new research published Monday in the Journal of the American Medical Association Pediatrics.

On average, the rate of self-harm for people aged 24 and younger who were medically treated for it increased by 3.5 per cent each year between 2000 and 2024 — meaning it more than doubled over the 25-year study period, said lead author Dr. Natasha Saunders.

In 2000, Saunders’s research points out, there was an average of 10.2 self-harm medical visits per 10,000 people. Over the years, that rate grew. The increase was steepest among girls, at 3.6 per cent annually, compared to 1.2 per cent a year for boys.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/fullarticle/2845856?guestAccessKey=a9a80f03-a82a-4a70-9abb-c2968d2e2696&utm_source=for_the_media&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=ftm_links&utm_content=tfl&utm_term=031626

 

[Ryujin]

We have many verification systems in the UK that use hard copy ID verification using a scan. I had a criminal records check with work that only required hard copy ID. My partner scanned in a driving license for him GMC membership ID. I’m pretty sure I had to provide hard copy ID to withdraw my winning back in my online poker stint. This is not beyond human ingenuity.

Data management companies or institutions could no doubt be formed that could act as verification intermediaries without giving Facebook your passport.

I guess my point is, if the law mandated ID registration the companies would be required to find a way in order to operate in that jurisdiction.

Yoti ID, for example.

 

[Umbran]

We have many verification systems in the UK that use hard copy ID verification using a scan.

In the UK, are you required, in general, to have a government-issued ID? Because in the US, we are not. There is no required Federal level ID.

Driver's licenses are the most common ID form here, but only 90% of us have them, and they are governed by State agencies. So, using them for age-certification across state boundaries would call for someone to handle verification with 50 different state agencies.

This is not beyond human ingenuity.

Nobody said it was beyond human ingenuity.
I said systems to do this didn't yet exist.

Data management companies or institutions could no doubt be formed that could act as verification intermediaries without giving Facebook your passport.

As if Meta or Alphabet or similar big tech billionaire company wouldn't own those data management companies in short order?

Pull the other one. It has bells on.

And having some small number of corporate entities able to verify personal data on potentially every adult in the nation makes them massive targets or possible sources of abuse, exposing the public to huge personal data risk.

I guess my point is, if the law mandated ID registration the companies would be required to find a way in order to operate in that jurisdiction.

Just requiring it without supporting it is nowhere near guaranteed to turn out well for the public you claim to want to protect.

 

[Morrus]

In the UK, are you required, in general, to have a government-issued ID?

No.

 

[Umbran]

No.

Cool. So, at what level are your typical IDs handled?

 

[TheSword]

In the UK, are you required, in general, to have a government-issued ID? Because in the US, we are not. There is no required Federal level ID.

Driver's licenses are the most common ID form here, but only 90% of us have them, and they are governed by State agencies. So, using them for age-certification across state boundaries would call for someone to handle verification with 50 different state agencies

Nobody said it was beyond human ingenuity.
I said systems to do this didn't yet exist.

As if Meta or Alphabet or similar big tech billionaire company wouldn't own those data management companies in short order?

Pull the other one. It has bells on.

And having some small number of corporate entities able to verify personal data on potentially every adult in the nation makes them massive targets or possible sources of abuse, exposing the public to huge personal data risk.

Just requiring it without supporting it is nowhere near guaranteed to turn out well for the public you claim to want to protect.

86% of UK citizens have a Passport. But irrespective every UK citizen has a birth certificates.
You can’t open a bank account in the UK without one of these things.

There doesn’t have to be a single worldwide organisation. The social media company would just need to demonstrate that it had verified identity. Eight by verifying the identity themself, or through a government method, or by using a third party agency.

We manage to verify driving licenses from hundreds of different countries to be safe on our roads. We can verify who they are for social media too.

 

[Morrus]

Cool. So, at what level are your typical IDs handled?

Driving license is common. Utility bills and bank statements are also common. Passports, of course (if you have one). Sounds similar to your setup.