Do you have a "litmus test" setting for generic rule sets?

[Reynard]

I was talking with a friend about what sort of setting or milieu I should use to test the early version of the rules for my homegrown RPG, and after mulling it for a while I realized that Star Wars was my general "litmus test" setting for any set of generic or broadly applicable rules. Without speaking to the quality of any particular Star Wars piece of media, I will say unequivocally that Star Wars is the most gamable setting in the pop-geek-culture universe, and for me anyway, if a "generic" rule set cannot do Star Wars, it isn't for me.

So do you have a setting or milieu that is your "litmus test" for any given set of generic/universal/etc rules you want to try? Do you demand a rule set be able to do heroic fantasy or Star trek or Cthulhu investigations?

 

[dbm]

The vast majority of our gaming is fantasy, so any genre-flexible system needs to have that covered.

The sub-genre of fantasy is a bit less well defined - we do pulp, gritty, and high fantasy with a fairly even distribution. That can be more tricky for a genre-flexible system as they have baked-in assumptions* which will make those variants more or less a natural fit.

* which is why I don’t personally view them as ‘generic’ since that implies a homogenous blob while Savage Worlds, GURPS and HERO are all very different and distinct from each other.

 

[payn]

I struggle with this concept. Part of that is I dont like universal systems because there isnt one that does heroic, Star Trek, and Cthulhu in one go. There simply isnt. Though if we examine the list given to us, we see one of these things is not like the other, one of them just dont belong here. Heroic fantasy is a generic term, where Star Trek and Cthulhu are specific. That is my problem with the concept of having a litmus test of a universal system, I dont believe in using a specific IP to do it. Instead, I look for a generic milieu such as heroic fantasy to check the boxes.

I consider D&D and PF to be generic heroic fantasy universal systems. Sure you can splash in sci-fi or horror elements and it works fine. However, you will never really tone down that power fantasy element that drives those systems. Nor will they ever feel Star Trek or Cthulhu; they will feel like D&D brand Star Trek to me.

So when im using a unverivsal and.or generic system, my litmus is more general. Does it feel like heroic fantasy, sci-fi, and/or horror? If it feels like it, then thats a successful universal system to me. If I start seeing elements of IP, its not going to be universal nor is it going to feel right for that IP. I'd avoid doing so if I was a designer. YMMV.

 

[Reynard]

So when im using a unverivsal and.or generic system, my litmus is more general. Does it feel like heroic fantasy, sci-fi, and/or horror? If it feels like it, then thats a successful universal system to me. If I start seeing elements of IP, its not going to be universal nor is it going to feel right for that IP. I'd avoid doing so if I was a designer. YMMV.

Maybe I was unclear: I am not saying use a Star Wars game as a generic system, I was saying that when I want to make sure a generic system will work for me, my go to milieu to test it is Star Wars. If I can't successfully do Star Wars with it, it doesn't have the right tools and levelers and dials for me.

 

[payn]

Maybe I was unclear: I am not saying use a Star Wars game as a generic system, I was saying that when I want to make sure a generic system will work for me, my go to milieu to test it is Star Wars. If I can't successfully do Star Wars with it, it doesn't have the right tools and levelers and dials for me.

Yeah, I wouldnt do that personally because then the system would be Star Wars and not Sci-Fi generic. My milieu would be more space opera, or hard sci-fi, or fantasy sci-fi that isnt specifically identifiable.

 

[Reynard]

Yeah, I wouldnt do that personally because then the system would be Star Wars and not Sci-Fi generic. My milieu would be more space opera, or hard sci-fi, or fantasy sci-fi that isnt specifically identifiable.

I am not sure I understand. The generic system is whatever it is (SWADE, say) but if it can do Star Wars (IMO) it can do any kind of pulpy space opera, and probably most other kinds of pulp adventure.

 

[payn]

I am not sure I understand. The generic system is whatever it is (SWADE, say) but if it can do Star Wars (IMO) it can do any kind of pulpy space opera, and probably most other kinds of pulp adventure.

Yeah, I dont see it that way. Though, SWADE has never truly been setting universal for me. It usually lacks the specifics to really do an IP. Thats not a bad thing on its own, but if I want a Star Wars game I want a Star Wars game, and not one that kinda sort can do it game.

 

[Willie the Duck]

If the goal is to stress-test the adaptability of a generic system, any one setting won't work. If you want to stress-test whether it has necessary components (and whether the components at least feel good to play with), I might suggest one that has shown up in discussion recently: Shadowrun.

The game has:

• combat
• complex social interactions
• differing character types that are each supposed to be valuable play options
• equipment that is meaningful, and also purchasable
• heist-like activities
• magic
• modular character options outside of basic career/class abilities (cyberware)
• skills (that actually get used)
• social connections
• some form of non-combat action with complex resolution that only some players will be interested in (netrunning)
• vehicles (admittedly not spaceships or tanks)

If you ran (or even just imagined running) Shadowrun with a proposed system, and it didn't work, it'd probably have a worse time with a bunch of others. If a vehicle chases is boring or has no variance in outcome, some game with tank or mecha or spacefighters is unlikely to work well. If managing stealth or perception skills for a Shadowrun run lead to unclear outcomes (or the players feel that their perception-focused character doesn't actually excel at that job) then it'll be worse in a CoC game. And so on.

 

[Umbran]

So do you have a setting or milieu that is your "litmus test" for any given set of generic/universal/etc rules you want to try? Do you demand a rule set be able to do heroic fantasy or Star trek or Cthulhu investigations?

No, I do not.

If I want to play Star Wars, then testing with Star Wars is good. If I might use them for other things, testing with Star Wars isn't helpful.

Despite claims of being "generic" or "universal", GURPS doesn't play like Cortex, which doesn't play like Savage Worlds, which doesn't play like Fate, which doesn't play like Cypher. They each have their own flavor, strengths, and weaknesses. My tests are aimed not to do a particular setting, but to see what the system does well and what it does poorly, so when I want to do something, I can choose the best system for the job.

 

[Reynard]

• combat
• complex social interactions
• differing character types that are each supposed to be valuable play options
• equipment that is meaningful, and also purchasable
• heist-like activities
• magic
• modular character options outside of basic career/class abilities (cyberware)
• skills (that actually get used)
• social connections
• some form of non-combat action with complex resolution that only some players will be interested in (netrunning)
• vehicles (admittedly not spaceships or tanks)

Except for that last parenthetical description, this is also a Star Wars list.