Do you have a "litmus test" setting for generic rule sets?

[bsss]

So do you have a setting or milieu that is your "litmus test" for any given set of generic/universal/etc rules you want to try? Do you demand a rule set be able to do heroic fantasy or Star trek or Cthulhu investigations?

A while back, my test used to be "can it do D&D-ish dungeon fantasy serviceably at worst" but I've since given up on the idea of having a universal system to rule them all. When I put dungeon fantasy aside into its own category, the whole idea of a universal system decayed, and I abandoned the "litmus test" idea and just evaluate how I feel about the particular (system, genre, style) tuple I have in mind. I have a preferred generic system right now, don't get me wrong, but it's not because of a litmus test, just because I know what I can do with the system and that it lines up with my sensibilities.

So I guess my answer is "no, not anymore".

 

[Nth Dimension Games]

So do you have a setting or milieu that is your "litmus test" for any given set of generic/universal/etc rules you want to try? Do you demand a rule set be able to do heroic fantasy or Star trek or Cthulhu investigations?

This is a little more complicated question to answer than appears at the surface. Is this the core mechanics of a system or the flavor of a system?

D&D uses a d20 system for its mechanics but has a fairly strict class progression system. I could use the d20 system in a Star Wars game, or nearly any other type of game for example. Would you classify the d20 as being a rule set able to span that range?

 

[Bill Zebub]

"Simple rules, deep implications" (quoting Jon Hodgson)

EDIT: Also, I am interpreting "generic" to mean "in general". "Generic rules" in the sense of "useful for any genre or setting or flavor!" has already failed my litmus test. I strongly believe that rules themselves...not just the fluff applied to the rules...convey flavor, and should be designed to support the intended genre/setting.

 

[Reynard]

This is a little more complicated question to answer than appears at the surface. Is this the core mechanics of a system or the flavor of a system?

D&D uses a d20 system for its mechanics but has a fairly strict class progression system. I could use the d20 system in a Star Wars game, or nearly any other type of game for example. Would you classify the d20 as being a rule set able to span that range?

I mean a game designed and marketed to be be "generic" or "universal".

 

[Reynard]

"Simple rules, deep implications" (quoting Jon Hodgson)

EDIT: Also, I am interpreting "generic" to mean "in general". "Generic rules" in the sense of "useful for any genre or setting or flavor!" has already failed my litmus test. I strongly believe that rules themselves...not just the fluff applied to the rules...convey flavor, and should be designed to support the intended genre/setting.

Some games do a better job than others of being both setting agnostic and having an identity. Savage Worlds is the best popular example, especially SWADE which icorporates a bunch of dials to help focus the game to meet the tone of the given genre.

 

[Fenris-77]

The answer to this question is never 'grappling rules'.

 

[hawkeyefan]

I don’t often play generic systems, but when I have, I tend to try and use the rules to create different characters. Can I use these rules to create Luke Skywalker? How about Spider-Man? How about Conan? How about Sherlock Holmes?

And usually, I don’t just mean can I create a character with game stats appropriate to those characters, but also does the game function in a way that makes playing those characters interesting.

 

[Nth Dimension Games]

"Simple rules, deep implications" (quoting Jon Hodgson)

"Do a lot with a little." (quoting me. I said it first. There's no way anyone has ever spliced those 6 words in that order, ever)

Some games do a better job than others of being both setting agnostic and having an identity. Savage Worlds is the best popular example, especially SWADE which icorporates a bunch of dials to help focus the game to meet the tone of the given genre.

I don't know anything about Savage Worlds but its name alone already carries a sort of flavor to it. It sounds like it could be fantasy but feels more Sci-Fi.

Are looking at trying to design a system that builds systems? This might be the best way to go if you want something that can handle everything. Like your games system has a mechanism in place when players want to use magic, that you have already established the framework for it to work inside your system.

You're sort of always simplifying simulation into game mechanics for the players to interact with. If you want a universal system, you're going to have to break down everything into its most simplest forms and try to have the resolution process be as close to each other as possible. Typically pass/fail.

Once you have the core down and introduce any identity to it, you're forced to contend with what variables to consider. This is why its hard to find that "perfect" universal system. Some settings don't have Telepathy. Variables to govern Telepathy simply don't exist. You would have to start designing a system that is going to be able to consider every Fantasy/Sci-Fi/Modern/Steam Punk/Cthulhu/Grim Dark/Care Bears/Rainbow/Gumdrop trope there is and to make sure there's a way to drop in those things into your system.

I've designed a system that allows Moderators (my game's version of a DM), to drop in additional systems when they want to add something not part of the "core" system. Its even canonical with its own in-game justification. So the best universal system is going to be a system that allows players to create systems.

 

[Reynard]

"Do a lot with a little." (quoting me. I said it first. There's no way anyone has ever spliced those 6 words in that order, ever)



I don't know anything about Savage Worlds but its name alone already carries a sort of flavor to it. It sounds like it could be fantasy but feels more Sci-Fi.

Are looking at trying to design a system that builds systems? This might be the best way to go if you want something that can handle everything. Like your games system has a mechanism in place when players want to use magic, that you have already established the framework for it to work inside your system.

You're sort of always simplifying simulation into game mechanics for the players to interact with. If you want a universal system, you're going to have to break down everything into its most simplest forms and try to have the resolution process be as close to each other as possible. Typically pass/fail.

Once you have the core down and introduce any identity to it, you're forced to contend with what variables to consider. This is why its hard to find that "perfect" universal system. Some settings don't have Telepathy. Variables to govern Telepathy simply don't exist. You would have to start designing a system that is going to be able to consider every Fantasy/Sci-Fi/Modern/Steam Punk/Cthulhu/Grim Dark/Care Bears/Rainbow/Gumdrop trope there is and to make sure there's a way to drop in those things into your system.

I've designed a system that allows Moderators (my game's version of a DM), to drop in additional systems when they want to add something not part of the "core" system. Its even canonical with its own in-game justification. So the best universal system is going to be a system that allows players to create systems.

I don't believe in the true universal system, simply because (as others have mentioned) mechanics have inherent "tone compliance" and some genres or milieus will just not work with some rule sets. However, I do think you can make a very broad game, that can do a lot of things where the venn diagrams overlap.

My personal system is not intended to be particularly generic -- but for it to work for me, it will have to be able to do Star Wars.

 

[Bill Zebub]

My personal system is not intended to be particularly generic -- but for it to work for me, it will have to be able to do Star Wars.

Ahh....so that's your goal.

As I've mentioned in another thread, I've been thinking a lot about the same thing. The ideas I'm thinking about for combat would be for any genre/playstyle where you want getting hit by a weapon to be very, very bad. No "whittling away at hit points" and then bouncing back to full after a few hours. So some kind of resource that gets degraded before any actual damage occurs. Mooks can have very little or none of an equivalent resource, so that you can take them out quickly.