D&D 5E (2024) The Price of a Soul (Lich Path problems)

[Kobold Stew]

The Path of the Lich in the latest UA provides an unparalleled power to players at level 4: through the Soul Siphon ability associated with the Lich Initiate feat, you have the ability to consume the soul of a humanoid. D&D doesn’t mess with souls much (I talk briefly about soul-language in point 4 here), and the metaphysics that restrict it to humanoids is problematic in and of itself. At a minimum, though, there is something in all humanoids, that is valuable (to them) and worth more than life itself. I don’t say this flippantly: death can be overcome with less cost and smaller expense than the recovery of a soul, which requires a Wish (with the attendant risks associated with casting that spell for any use other than replicating a level-8-or-below spell) or True Resurrection (which in addition to requiring a 9th-level spell consumes a material component worth 25k gp; compare a level 7 spell and 1000 gp to overcome death at any time within a century). And so, a rich PC spellcaster level 17 or higher could reverse this effect, but given the effect is a consequence of a level 4 ability, the power associated with it is, frankly, astronomical. I can think of no similar effect in the game that involves so great a disparity between cause and cure.

Further, the benefit to the would-be Lich for the consumption of a soul is effectively trivial: +1d6 damage within the next 6 seconds. The benefit is the equivalent of a mediocre level 1 spell (or a cantrip cast by a level 5 caster). It is a more terrifying ability, with more severe consequences for the victim than anything available to anyone in the Monster Manual.

It is also unquestionably evil. Despite the fluff text that not all liches are bad and the mechanical opportunity to take the feat if you are a good character, to use this ability against any opponent is more extreme than murder; more extreme, again, for the victim, than any other act available to anyone in the game, for a negligible benefit. Anyone who ever used this would be, without any nuance or doubt, evil.

WOTC designers have played with souls before, and the UA version of the Phantom Rogue pre-Tasha’s had similar soul-language on an ability available at level 9, which (thankfully) they removed. I get recovering a soul should be hard; Greater Restoration is out of reach of most individuals who would be victims, at level 4. But to require Wish or True Resurrection effectively says it is not going to happen, and makes any use of Soul Siphon truly horrific.

 

[Parmandur]

Yeah, honestly I have doubts that "being a Lich" will make it through UA: if they wanted to explore the mechanical approach, really think they ought to have started with a less extreme narrative example.

 

[el-remmen]

Maybe they are considering a 5e version of the Book of Vile Darkness.

 

[Brendan Byrd]

I thought level drain had been removed in 5e (?)
Exhaustion + hp loss instead?

 

[fuindordm]

These aspects bothered me also. It implies that creating a soul jar / phylactery and destroying a soul are powers equivalent to a second level spell, since you can get this feat as early as 4th level. And I completely agree that destroying a soul should be high-level magic.

If the lich path ever became official as written, then every Assassin's Guild would make lichdom a prerequisite for entry.

On the other hand, what we see is mainly flavor text. It would go down easier if they just explain it differently, for example:

"The aspiring lich first creates a soul jar, a personal magic item that is able to siphon a portion of life energy from nearby creatures at the moment of death. The PC's connection to the soul jar gradually acclimates their body to necrotic energies, so that they can survive the final ritual that will transform them into a lich."

Then, for the final feat:

"When they take this feat, the aspiring lich has completed a gruelling campaign of esoteric research, sacrifices, and contracts with dark powers to prepare their body and soul for true lichdom. They are ready to perform the final ritual, and if they survive the transition to undeath their soul jar becomes a true phylactery. The phylactery captures souls that the lich has marked for death or personally slain, and this soul energy sustains their undead body and magical power."

 

[Kobold Stew]

These aspects bothered me also. It implies that creating a soul jar / phylactery and destroying a soul are powers equivalent to a second level spell, since you can get this feat as early as 4th level. And I completely agree that destroying a soul should be high-level magic.

On the other hand, what we see is mainly flavor text. It would go down easier if they just explain it differently, for example:

Thank you, yes.

"slivers of life essence" or whatever works is better than "soul". And I agree it is mainly flavour-text, but not entirely: the specific requirements for restoration being expensive and inaccessible magic creates a metaphysical world in the RAW that is, in my view, deeply problematic. Get rid of that sentence (about wish or true resurrection) and the specifics about "souls", and I'm fine with this.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Maybe they are considering a 5e version of the Book of Vile Darkness.

I think they almost definitely are, given this latest UA.

 

[DEFCON 1]

I believe options that force a player and a DM to actually think about who they are as a character and what they are doing within the world is a good thing. Otherwise... you might as well just remove all flavor text from abilities and instead say "You can do X in the board game" if the flavor text has little to no meaning.

What's the point of letting a player "become a Lich" within the story of the campaign world if there's nothing for that player to actually think about in terms of actually being a lich in that campaign world? If "becoming a Lich" is merely just a couple game mechanics you take at certain levels... it's no different than any other game mechanic you could take instead. You are no longer becoming a Lich... you just have a couple additional game mechanics to use during the tactical miniatures board game.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I also think part of the problem here is that D&D has never sat down and figured out how death, souls and the afterlife work. There's a bunch of largely disconnected stuff that touches on it, but to my knowledge, there's never been a coherent thought process, which means that when you add new stuff like this, it sometimes logically falls apart.

If we had a clear idea for 5E of "here's where souls come from, here's who gets them, here's what happens to them when the body dies, here's the path they take toward their final destination, here's that final destination and here's what happens to them after that," we would know what systems undeath connects to and what it takes to interfere with the natural process.

It'd also help make bringing someone back from the dead, through whatever means, have clear and consistent cost requirements, etc.

 

[DEFCON 1]

I also think part of the problem here is that D&D has never sat down and figured out how death, souls and the afterlife work. There's a bunch of largely disconnected stuff that touches on it, but to my knowledge, there's never been a coherent thought process, which means that when you add new stuff like this, it sometimes logically falls apart.

If we had a clear idea for 5E of "here's where souls come from, here's who gets them, here's what happens to them when the body dies, here's the path they take toward their final destination, here's that final destination and here's what happens to them after that," we would know what systems undeath connects to and what it takes to interfere with the natural process.

It'd also help make bringing someone back from the dead, through whatever means, have clear and consistent cost requirements, etc.

While WotC could do that... this is one of many things they just leave to individual DMs to decide for themselves in their own campaign worlds. Which I don't think is a bad thing. Most DMs should want and have final say on how their game worlds are and how they work. They don't need WotC's heavy hand "laying down the law" as it were.

If that means that any individual DM now has to work out for themselves how this 'Path of the Lich' actually is going to work in their individual game world? So be it! They already are making thousands of decisions like this for their game worlds already... so if they choose to add and use this flavored mechanical path to it, then they need to make one more. But that's why they decided to be a DM and run their own worlds in the first place--to get to make these choices.