D&D 5E (2014) Let's Talk About Guns in 5E

[LuisCarlos17f]

And we can't forget some factions don't want firearms can break the power balance: war deities, lord feys, giants, dragons, rival kings..

Some powers could sell relatively cheap "anti-ballistic magic defenses" not to earn money but to "sabotage" the fireams in the battlefield, avoiding these could be used against them later.

 

[saviirkad]

So the question then becomes how to adjudicate a high volume of fire without ruining the fantasy of being able to fill a mutant crab full of lead?

For me this is when it starts to veer less into how I would adjudicate a gun within the same base setting as "typical" D&D and more about how our choices of inclusion tailor the setting and story being told.

A weapon that we want to be used in that way, to impact targets in that way, means combat would adjust accordingly. Consider any other form of entertainment, from film & TV to books, and the types of encounters one expects to see when the heroes are either wielding swords and arrows or LMGs.

Just like the game and world changes if the players have horses vs a ship, or an airship, or a spelljammer. A spelljammer ship won't ruin the fantasy because we'd be making the fantasy to specifically include spelljammer ships. If the fantasy was centered around horse travel, there wouldn't be spelljammer ships. Do I put a point of interest in the nearby forest, or another planet? Is the villain a conquering warlord from a neighboring nation, or an alien invader?

Similarly, am I fighting a mutant crab, or am I being swarmed by mutant crabs?

I don't think they had the mathematics, specifically calculus.

There's a fair few technological advancements they would have had to leap frog past to make it work, barring a more fantastical what-if scenario where their industrial revolution would have no overlap or comparison to the one that did happen.

Something I'd read once put it as they hadn't even yet reached the apex of what wooden tools can do, let alone encountered the need for the mechanical.

 

[Reynard]

A weapon that we want to be used in that way, to impact targets in that way, means combat would adjust accordingly. Consider any other form of entertainment, from film & TV to books, and the types of encounters one expects to see when the heroes are either wielding swords and arrows or LMGs.

John Wick had a gun and katana fight, where the katana were used to block gunfire. That is a D&D fight, through and through.

 

[saviirkad]

John Wick had a gun and katana fight, where the kata were used to block gunfire. That is a D&D fight, through and through.

John Wick is also a good example of how bullets can be flying, but not every bullet is someone dropping. Like with most D&D combats, there's several attacks being thrown about, and Wick himself gets shot a whole heck of a lot.

 

[Laurefindel]

John Wick is also a good example of how bullets can be flying, but not every bullet is someone dropping. Like with most D&D combats, there's several attacks being thrown about, and Wick himself gets shot a whole heck of a lot.

To be fair however, with melee combat and slow-velocity projectiles, its easier to visualize and differentiate between an attack that misses and an attack that hits but fails to deal sufficient damage to kill or impede the target significantly. The least "dodge-able" and the deadlier the attack, the more you have to see hp as a resource allowing you to avoid an attack (or the intended effect of the attacker), but you won't be able to keep up doing so for long.

Personally, I'm a big fan of hp = a resource that the character spends rather than a pool depleted by adversaries.

 

[Azzy]

When magic can literally do miraculous things, why would people work on creations that will never rival the proven abilities of magic in their lifetimes?

That's simple. If you weren't born with magical talent, have had access to a magical education, or made a bargain with a back-alley devil, then you likely don't use magic and are reliant on good, old-fashioned technology. Then there's always the struggle between the Haves and the Haves Not—people without magic may view those with magic as potentially dangerous, and some may seek any technology to even the odds.

 

[saviirkad]

Personally, I'm a big fan of hp = a resource that the character spends rather than a pool depleted by adversaries.

I am as well. An early blow to my HP can be described as the PC exerting themselves physically to dodge the swing, or taking an arm-numbing, pounding blow upon their shield.

The visible damage and exertion begins low and builds up as the battle drags, eventually leading to the common visual of Wick bleeding, limping and out of breath, but still dragging himself up to fight the last other guy who looks just as bad.

 

[Rocker26a]

Y'know what was pretty decent, as far as implementations of firearms into D&D go? That Runeterra tie-in that offered the Renegade Fighter. Doesn't impose much on the flavour side, and it's got a nice bit of customization.

I'd say I generally prefer firearms to be standard (if notably rare or special) items that have some path for leaning into, rather than locked off into a subclass of their own, but still. Pretty decent.

(I know absolutely nothing about Runeterra itself though, I basically only checked out that tie-in for those subclasses. They're neat on the whole!)

 

[Remathilis]

Modern firearms, yes. But I was talking about earlier firearms- my specific example was a Napoleonic era rifle, and the benchmark of being to reload and fire it "quickly" in battle to get 3 shots per minute.

These sorts of discussions never seem to want to specify what era of weapons they want to talk about.

There does seem to be a weird through line where discussing guns in D&D somehow encompasses every gun from the matchlock to the AK-47 being available simultaneously. I'm perfectly fine with the 1-shot Renaissance type firearms being available in most D&D worlds without any sort of rapid loading or machine fired ones also being available.

 

[Laurefindel]

There does seem to be a weird through line where discussing guns in D&D somehow encompasses every gun from the matchlock to the AK-47 being available simultaneously. I'm perfectly fine with the 1-shot Renaissance type firearms being available in most D&D worlds without any sort of rapid loading or machine fired ones also being available.

Without going all AK47, early firearms generally run into the problem that their historical rate of fire is nowhere near the number of attacks that D&D characters can have per round, especially considering fighters. So firearms in D&D either go the way of re-fluffed crossbows and hit a rate of fire unmatched until the 19th century, or go the way of "magical attacks" with single high-damage effects and become essentially non-weapons for the purpose of abilities, feats, etc. Expectations can be hard to reconcile with the rules and that turns some people off.