D&D 5E (2014) How To Make High Level 5E Work.For You +

[Distracted DM]

Now that you asked I am realizing that everyone I play with either learned the game with my back in 1e or learned from me during 4e and 5e (and I treated those games pretty much the same as 1e). So that problem solving mindset was built into our RPG playing DNA. So I don't know how to make players thing that way.

Here is an example of what I am talking about though:
We had a group of 5 lvl 20 PCs go up against Tiamat. They had previously learned that she was impervious to all but the most powerful of spells (aka "Limited Spell Immunity" - unaffected by spells of 6th level or lower and dis/advantage on all others). Therefore they focused on defensive and buff magic. The wizard also used a lightning bolt to knock off a stalagmite above Tiamat to inflict damage. They didn't try to cast magic directly at her so much. They did try some illusion magic too, but didn't realize that she has truesight

That's something I had considered (pretty sure Drizzt did something like that vs Icingdeath... wait he doesn't have lightning bolts! Can't remember how he did that), how did you rule the stalagmite, btw? Dex save vs half, did you really fluff the damage up or?

 

[OB1]

While I agree with most of your points, I am not sure this one is axiomatic. It can be true, of course, but it can also be true that players dictate story in earlier tiers, as well as that story in tier 4 is still driven by the GM.

Perhaps a better way of stating it would be, 'be prepared to ceed control of the story to the players in Tier IV, if you don't already do so.' In Tier IV, the world reacts the the PCs more than the PCs react to the world.

 

[TwoSix]

Perhaps a better way of stating it would be, 'be prepared to ceed control of the story to the players in Tier IV, if you don't already do so.' In Tier IV, the world reacts the the PCs more than the PCs react to the world.

I would agree with this. Even if you were able to do a "follow the story" game for the majority of the game, Tier 4 makes it extremely easy to just ignore that stuff if the players want.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Fifth and most importantly...campaign pacing. No one talks about this, but it's hugely important. In my experience, Tier 1 goes by in about a dozen sessions. So does Tier 4! A high level campaign needs to be paced with the assumption that high level play will come to a quick end. It's not something meant to be drawn out. It's concise, decisive, and epic. It's...well, it's the climax. Even if high level play is extra work for the DM...the good news is that it won't last forever. Make the most of it.

Generally, something I needed to learn. Close up some plot lines in your campaign at some point, and that includes getting to the finale. Don't become the George Martin of your own campaign!

 

[Mort]

Perhaps a better way of stating it would be, 'be prepared to ceed control of the story to the players in Tier IV, if you don't already do so.' In Tier IV, the world reacts the the PCs more than the PCs react to the world.

One of the challenges is this varies greatly by group.

High level PCs have the means to be extremely proactive if they choose, they have many tools to dictate play much more significantly than prior levels.

Or not, high level play can also be the PCs discovering a much bigger playfield. And that while their big-time in their little corner, they're just getting started in the greater scheme of things.

My players have enjoyed doing either of these, or both in various combinations.

 

[Reynard]

Sorry, should have linked your name to it.

I have descent into Avernus. Haven't run it though, might now that group finished the Planescape adventure. First part looks REALLY linear and then it seems to open up.

I might just take the end bits and adapt to my, now 18th level, group.

Descent caps at at 13th level. It really isn't a high level adventure.

 

[Stormonu]

There's a temptation at high level to make everything "world/reality endangering". Be aware of the implications to your game world they would create - especially if the PCs fail. Try to build into multiple states of success or failure to such themes; they're generally much better than binary saved/destroyed outcomes.

Of course, also keep in mind high-level stories that simply have personal stakes for the PCs or those immediately surrounding them.

For example, saving the soul of a beloved NPC/Henchmen from the results of a deal with a devil or the draw of the Donjon card can make an epic level quest that doesn't require saving the world but could require feats of extraordinary ability to accomplish - as long as it can't be solved with the simple casting of one spell (especially the likes of wish - wish might only get you information or started down the track, but keeping it from completely solving the situation keeps the game interesting).

 

[Mort]

Descent caps at at 13th level. It really isn't a high level adventure.

Sure, but considering where they end up, it's not too hard to adapt to high level play.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Perhaps a better way of stating it would be, 'be prepared to ceed control of the story to the players in Tier IV, if you don't already do so.' In Tier IV, the world reacts the the PCs more than the PCs react to the world.

I think that is an interesting idea.

But in general, it might be worth considering that a high level campaign might not need to delve into the usual save-the-world stuff, but could be about alter-the-world-fundamentally stuff. If you assume that high level characters are really rare, let the players really leave a lasting mark - like change the rules of the afterlife, take out a god, found a nation or unite two nations, found a new religion or change the teachings of an existing one (imagine turning an evil god's church into agent of positivity.)

 

[dave2008]

That's something I had considered (pretty sure Drizzt did something like that vs Icingdeath... wait he doesn't have lightning bolts! Can't remember how he did that), how did you rule the stalagmite, btw? Dex save vs half, did you really fluff the damage up or?

I am pretty sure I just refluffed the lighting bolt. Same damage (but bludgeoning) & dex save for half. However, that was shortly after Theros came out so it was some time ago!