Shadowdark Shadowdark Discussion Thread [+]

[Bill Zebub]

Yup.

It uses the core D20 system mechanic of d20 + mods vs a DC, but that originated in 3E. Same with the ability score bonus scale. Which I think Kelsey chose over the B/X bonus scale very deliberately as part of her advancement system, for how it works with Talent rolls and enables a bit of "2-for-1" advancement at lower levels.

Just about the only things it lifts directly from 5E are the rolling with advantage/disadvantage concept, and HP not going below 0 (the game has no negative HP, like 1E, 2E, 3.x, and 4E did).

...and I believe Mike Mearls has acknowledged that he got the idea for Advantage/Disadvantage from The One Ring. I can't cite a source for that, but TOR did pre-date 5e.

 

[Scribe]

For example, let's say PCs are at sea, on a ship that's trading cannonball barrages with an enemy ship. In D&D, a PC might reasonably take a direct hit from a canon and not have any injuries. Conversely, some PCs have attacks that could effectively disable an entire ship rather easily.

How does that play out in Shadowdark?

I mean, they would get hit and die, hopefully.

 

[Reynard]

I appreciate the feedback. The reason I ask is because there are areas of 5E where I wanted some more granularity. With Shadowdark being a game that aims to be stripped-down 5E, I'm not sure if that means some of those areas are even lighter.

In particular, for contemporary D&D in general, the interaction between PCs, vehicles, and mounts has always been a bit odd.

I am interested in learning more about how Shadowdark approaches such things.

Do you feel that Shadowdark handles mounts and vehicles well?

How do things work when bigger scales are involved?

For example, let's say PCs are at sea, on a ship that's trading cannonball barrages with an enemy ship. In D&D, a PC might reasonably take a direct hit from a canon and not have any injuries. Conversely, some PCs have attacks that could effectively disable an entire ship rather easily.

How does that play out in Shadowdark?

I am not sure Shadowdark is the right game for what you are looking for.

 

[Argyle King]

I mean, they would get hit and die, hopefully.

That is how I imagine it in my mind, and that is what makes the most sense to me.

Contemporary D&D typically doesn't play out in that way. I've been open to trying other games that handle such situations that are closer to my expectations.

Maybe the Titanbound project for Shadowdark will offer a better way of handling larger scales. My guess is that a campaign featuring kaiju-sized creatures would address what happens if you're hit by one and/or using seige equipment to battle one. I don't really know. I just thought the concept looked cool and it came with things that I can reasonably still use in other games that I play.

 

[Scribe]

That is how I imagine it in my mind, and that is what makes the most sense to me.

Contemporary D&D typically doesn't play out in that way. I've been open to trying other games that handle such situations that are closer to my expectations.

Maybe the Titanbound project for Shadowdark will offer a better way of handling larger scales. My guess is that a campaign featuring kaiju-sized creatures would address what happens if you're hit by one and/or using seige equipment to battle one. I don't really know. I just thought the concept looked cool and it came with things that I can reasonably still use in other games that I play.

Siege equipment is also coming in the update for Western Reaches I believe, but the core book doesn't handle your scenario.

 

[Xenolith234]

I believe that because the core chassis is light, you could make the game as complex as you like, Ala AD&D. Just bolt on variant rules and subsystems. I’d actually like to see something like that happen just out of curiosity.

 

[darjr]

...and I believe Mike Mearls has acknowledged that he got the idea for Advantage/Disadvantage from The One Ring. I can't cite a source for that, but TOR did pre-date 5e.

Adv mechanic was part of the D&D 4th ed Avenger class written for Will Wheaton.

 

[Mannahnin]

Adv mechanic was part of the D&D 4th ed Avenger class written for Will Wheaton.

Eh. They're related but not really the same thing.

The idea of rolling twice and taking the better result had been done in games before. One of the instances seared in my mind is Twin-Linked weapons from Warhammer 40k, 3rd edition (1999) through 7th edition.

Oath of Enmity did that for melee attacks against the targeted foe, but as a generalized mechanic covering any number of beneficial or harmful circumstances, I don't remember seeing Adv/Disadv before 5E.

4E Players Handbook 2, p34 wrote:

Oath of Enmity Avenger Feature
You focus your wrath on a single foe, giving your attacks against it extraordinary accuracy.

Encounter (Special) ✦ Divine
Minor Action Close burst 10
Target: One enemy you can see in burst
Effect: When you make a melee attack against the target and the target is the only enemy adjacent to you, you make two attack rolls and use either result. This effect lasts until the end of the encounter or until the target drops to 0 hit points, at which point you regain the use of this power.

If another effect lets you roll twice and use the higher result when making an attack roll, this power has no effect on that attack. If an effect forces you to roll twice and use the lower result when making an attack roll, this power has no effect on that attack either.

If an effect lets you reroll an attack roll and you rolled twice because of this power, you reroll both dice.

5E 2014 Players Handbook, p 173 wrote:

ADVANTAGE AND DISADVANTAGE

Sometimes a special ability or spell tells you that you have advantage or disadvantage on an ability check,

a saving throw, or an attack roll. When that happens, you roll a second d20 when you make the roll. Use the higher of the two rolls if you have advantage, and use the lower roll if you have disadvantage. For example, if you have disadvantage and roll a 17 and a 5, you use the 5. If you instead have advantage and roll those numbers, you use the 17.

If multiple situations affect a roll and each one grants advantage or imposes disadvantage on it, you don't roll more than one additional d20. If two favorable situations grant advantage, for example, you still roll only one additional d20.

If circumstances cause a roll to have both advantage and disadvantage, you are considered to have neither of them, and you roll one d20. This is true even if multiple circumstances impose disadvantage and only one grants advantage or vice versa. In such a situation, you have neither advantage nor disadvantage.

When you have advantage or disadvantage and something in the game, such as the halfling's Lucky trait, lets you reroll the d20, you can reroll only one of the dice. You choose which one. For example, if a halfling has advantage on an ability check and rolls a l anda 13, the halfling could use the Lucky trait to reroll the 1.

You usually gain advantage or disadvantage through the use of special abilities, actions, or spells. Inspiration (see chapter 4) can also give a character advantage on checks related to the character's personality, ideals, or bonds. The DM can also decide that circumstances influence a roll in one direction or the other and grant advantage or impose disadvantage as a result.