D&D 5E (2024) The Versatile STR Fighter: Melee with a Real Ranged Option

[Zardnaar]

Blind fighting is situational, but those situations come up frequently enough and when they come up this fighting style is a complete game changer. Pretty much any time there is heavy obscuration, magical darkness or invisibility it more or less completely bypasses it. RAW it is impossible to hide from a character with blindsight so things like Shadow Demons or Goblins or Assasins are severely nerfed.

Further in those cases with obscuration, you are getting advantage and your enemies are getting disadvantage, further they don't get opportunity attacks when you move, but you get them with advantage when they move. Close with an enemy caster and cast Fog Cloud or Darnkess or have an ally cast it and now that enemy can't cast a spell that requires sight, they can't misty step out of it. If they try to walk out without disengaging you can grapple them or if they do disengage you can walk out grapple them and drag them back in.

Blind Fighting is not something you are going to use every fight, but it is huge when you do use it.

An extra 2 points of damage per attack is nice, it almost always works and it is there every fight, but it is not game changing in the same fashion. Same with two-weapon fighting, same with Defense.

This is not a theory I came up with it is from in game experience with multiple 1-20 campaigns

If you are playing a range-only character who is going to get sharpshooter, I would agree Archery is the best.

Those situations are fairly rare though unless you build around it. Then youre screwing over the rest of the party unless they build around it.

Party synergy is important however. ENworld will tell you youre wrong because you're only allowed contrived situations with 65% hit chance apparently.

 

[ECMO3]

what, like, fog cloud or darkness? i mean i guess if you want to screw with the rest of the party, too.

First, I want to be clear, this is not the main advantage afforded by Blind Fighting. It is one advantage and it can be used, but the main advantage is seeing invisibile enemies, especially if you do not automatically know where they are located at your table. Being able to see someone who you could not otherwise see is a big deal in the game, especially for casters and front line tank type characters. It enables AOOs and it enables a lot of spells, including the Shield Spell. Depending on how your DM plays "Invisible" it may allow you to find enemies you would not even be able to find and attack.

That said you can use obscuration for your advantage and you would do this when the situation warrants to give yourself a big advantage, typically when you are fighting holding down one flank, while the rest of the party fights another or when you are facing an enemy caster you want to isolate (as most spells require the caster to see the target). You obviously do it when it is advantageous to your party. But it is a big advantage when it is.

Depending on how your DM interprets the invisible condition it can hurt ranged characters, but it has little affect on melee allies unless their build relies heavily on AOOs.

RAW when you cast Fog Cloud or Darkness everyone inside instantly has the Invisible condition with respect to everyone inside and outside, further everyone outside the AOE has the invisible condition from people inside or people on the other side of it. All those people are invisible unless you have some sort of extra-sensory power (blindsight, Trueseeing, tremmor sense etc).

Now the DM part comes in - do you know where invisible creatures are located at your table? If the answer is yes then your party is not really screwed at all, your ranged allies (who are invisible) attack enemies (who are also invisible) and those attacks are regular. Similarly your melee members go in and they are invisible while attacking invisible enemies. The only real effect on your allies is no one gets AOOs (although Zhentarim Tactics and Sentinel do still work) and other things that require you to see (usually spells) do not work.

If your DM rules that invisible means you do not know where enemies are then it can hurt your ranged allies, and your melee allies typically have to walk around and find enemies but you would have an understanding of this before you use it. But in this case the fighting style is even more powerful generally.

 

[ECMO3]

Those situations are fairly rare though unless you build around it. Then youre screwing over the rest of the party unless they build around it.

No they are not rare. They are quite frequent. Any enemy that has an ability to hide as a bonus action is going to have that nullified within 10 feet of you. Anything that causes obscuration is going to be nullified within 10 feet of you.

It is not every fight that you will use it, but it is common enough that you will use it regularly.

 

[Minigiant]

Personally i wish more fighting style feats got printed. Like one that let you switch Mastery Properties or was a flat +1.

 

[W'rkncacnter]

Blind fighting is situational, but those situations come up frequently enough and when they come up this fighting style is a complete game changer. Pretty much any time there is heavy obscuration, magical darkness or invisibility it more or less completely bypasses it. RAW it is impossible to hide from a character with blindsight so things like Shadow Demons or Goblins or Assasins are severely nerfed.

Further in those cases with obscuration, you are getting advantage and your enemies are getting disadvantage, further they don't get opportunity attacks when you move, but you get them with advantage when they move. Close with an enemy caster and cast Fog Cloud or Darnkess or have an ally cast it and now that enemy can't cast a spell that requires sight, they can't misty step out of it. If they try to walk out without disengaging you can grapple them or if they do disengage you can walk out grapple them and drag them back in.

Blind Fighting is not something you are going to use every fight, but it is huge when you do use it.

An extra 2 points of damage per attack is nice, it almost always works and it is there every fight, but it is not game changing in the same fashion. Same with two-weapon fighting, same with Defense.

This is not a theory I came up with it is from in game experience with multiple 1-20 campaigns

If you are playing a range-only character who is going to get sharpshooter, I would agree Archery is the best.

i wonder if the types of encounters and party compositions i often see are what's stopping me from understanding this.

if im playing 5e, im either playing 2014 or running a5e. either way, i'll be lucky to see a party where even half the characters are melee focused, which means throwing up an obscured area is stopping at least half the party from effectively engaging anything inside (the whole party in the case of a5e, since that fixed the weird "two blind characters attacking each other do so always flat" bug by just saying it's always at disadvantage instead), and we don't run into obscured areas or invisible creatures very often besides. and charging a caster generally isn't a great idea since most statblocks we fight when i play are bespoke, meaning there's no telling how well a given caster will be able to fight in melee (it's often much better then you'd think).

so, like, i dunno, maybe this is just the games i play in being weird.

 

[CreamCloud0]

Personally i wish more fighting style feats got printed. Like one that let you switch Mastery Properties or was a flat +1.

I feel like fighting styles don’t actually live up to their name, if I take a fighting style i feel like it should fundamentally alter how I can engage in combat with that weapon, honestly some of the weapon feats are closer to what I’d expect from a ‘fighting style’: crusher, defensive duelist, spear master.

 

[Zardnaar]

i wonder if the types of encounters and party compositions i often see are what's stopping me from understanding this.

if im playing 5e, im either playing 2014 or running a5e. either way, i'll be lucky to see a party where even half the characters are melee focused, which means throwing up an obscured area is stopping at least half the party from effectively engaging anything inside (the whole party in the case of a5e, since that fixed the weird "two blind characters attacking each other do so always flat" bug by just saying it's always at disadvantage instead), and we don't run into obscured areas or invisible creatures very often besides. and charging a caster generally isn't a great idea since most statblocks we fight when i play are bespoke, meaning there's no telling how well a given caster will be able to fight in melee (it's often much better then you'd think).

so, like, i dunno, maybe this is just the games i play in being weird.

Lvl 7 last campaign they were fighting sharrans. Lots of darkness.

 

[Minigiant]

I feel like fighting styles don’t actually live up to their name, if I take a fighting style i feel like it should fundamentally alter how I can engage in combat with that weapon, honestly some of the weapon feats are closer to what I’d expect from a ‘fighting style’: crusher, defensive duelist, spear master.

I was hoping for something that drastically alters fighting style

Balanced: +1 AC
Hybrid: +2 to ranged and two handed weapons
Dragon Style: Unarmed or Light weapon attack as Bonus Action, -1 AC
Giant Style: +3 AC, -2 to attack rolls with weapons

 

[ECMO3]

i wonder if the types of encounters and party compositions i often see are what's stopping me from understanding this.

if im playing 5e, im either playing 2014 or running a5e. either way, i'll be lucky to see a party where even half the characters are melee focused, which means throwing up an obscured area is stopping at least half the party from effectively engaging anything inside (the whole party in the case of a5e, since that fixed the weird "two blind characters attacking each other do so always flat" bug by just saying it's always at disadvantage instead), and we don't run into obscured areas or invisible creatures very often besides. and charging a caster generally isn't a great idea since most statblocks we fight when i play are bespoke, meaning there's no telling how well a given caster will be able to fight in melee (it's often much better then you'd think).

so, like, i dunno, maybe this is just the games i play in being weird.

If you are not playing 2024 it is not the same. The specific reason it is so powerful is because of changes to blindsight, elimination of "hidden" as a thing in the game, and the changes to the invisible condition. This is independant of party composition. Invisible stalkers, Shadows, Shadow Demons, Goblins, Assasins, the new 2024 hiding Vampires, .... anything that uses "Invisibility" is severely nerfed.

People talk about throwing up an obscured area, and yes that can be very effective, but it is not the main thing. The main thing is against invisible (2024 definition) enemies and to a lessor extent when enemies use things that cause obscurement against you.

If you put up an obscured area, when you do it you control the area. It is not like it is a random area of obscurement. You place it. Darkness is a 15 foot radius, Fog Cloud cast at level 1 is a 20 foot radius. So your allies should not be getting screwed. You place it specifically to screw the enemies and if you can't place it so as not to screw your party then you wouldn't cast it. In addition to controling the area, you also usually control the duration with concentration. So you can drop it before and allies turns if it is benificial and allies can also ready an action for when it is dropped.

For example I was playing last night. It was 5 12th level PCs (Barbarian, Ranger8/Warlock4, Ranger1/Wizard11, Fighter8/Monk4, Cleric) fighting 10 Hill Giants in a mountain pass that was 40 feet wide and made an S shape probably around 200 feet long end to end. The Fighter/Monk is a Shadow Monk who can see through his own darkness and my Ranger/Warlock has blind fighting. The rest of the party doesn't have anything special. The Monk did throw down Darkness in that fight but every PC that was in the darkness at all at any point purposely went into it and no more than 3 PCs and 2 Giants were ever in it at one time. It completely screwed up the Giants. They have a ranged attack that poisons if it hits with no save, but the darkness effectively cut the battlefield in two, taking away attacks from enemies on the north side of it who could not see through it while most of the party was on the south side of it and those who weren't south of it were in it.

As far as charging a caster, if I am a melee character I am usually going to charge him anyway. He may be great in melee, but if you put him in Darkness that blinds him and not you he is going to be less effective than he would be were he not blinded.

 

[ECMO3]

Personally i wish more fighting style feats got printed. Like one that let you switch Mastery Properties or was a flat +1.

The fighting style I miss from 2014 is Superior Technique. It is not the most powerful by far, but it is the most fun.